Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Should Harringay Online (& similar websites) report all local crime?
There seem to have been a spate of incidents on the streets hereabouts recently and we or other HoL users have added posts about them online.
Reading one response to a crime related post from a member this morning, I was uncomfortable to read that she's starting to feel more nervous about going out now. I'm wondering whether we're doing the community a disservice by providing a platform for these crime stories.
On the one hand, it's good to be informed. On the other, are we responsible for creating more fear than there's cause for?
Is there a middle ground? Could we do things differently that would meet both the desire to inform and the wish not to cause undue concern?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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John D, for a Tory voter you have far too much faith in "the machine". It has faults.
Hugh, are you looking to draw a line? I think the SHIS post was a bit of a low for HoL.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Never voted Tory in my life John :-) It only sounds like it because they follow my lead, not I theirs.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I'm doing exactly what I said, John (Mc), reflecting on the effect of the site, my role and my responsibilities. I'm inviting views and discussion and wondering. It's clearly less black and white for me than it is for you.
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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I agree totally with John D on that.
Far too much of the breathlessly speculative OMG sort of reaction, usually based on someone else's speculation. Let the SNT provide us with their sober information when they think it's opportune. Don't give space to nonsense like someone's sighting of a 'grumpy policewoman' at a scene of crime. If any of us were left for hours on a cold night preserving the scene while bursting for a pee, we'd be grumpy too. Similarly, colourful descriptions of what should be inflicted on rapists have no place on a serious post-adolescent site. Anything that just feeds our area's perception of crime rather than aids its detection should be curtailed/censored.
Counter-sensationalist posts aimed at calming the more excitably alarmist reactions-to-reactions shouldn't be seen as merely patronising.
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Permalink Reply by SarahC on
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The local news (including crime) aspect of the site is one of the main reasons I look at it and I think it would be a pity to lose this level of local information. You often cover things the local papers take days to get on to, and this is frankly the stuff you want to know as a local person as it affects your day-to-day life. But I'm a journalist, so may be prejudiced in favour of reporting.
Mind you, I think it would be helpful to somehow keep the debate a bit more factual and a bit less "string em up". Sometimes it feels a bit like being stuck on a bus with someone ranting on.
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Permalink Reply by ElleCarumba on
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I would assume that most people who read HoL are adults and so able to assess information and make a decision on how to respond to it.
I don't think that it is anyone else's place to say "ooooh, I don't think these people are brave/clever/sensible enough to read that so we'll not allow it to be written in order to protect them". Anyone who has lived in a city, anywhere in the world, will know that bad stuff can happen in your neighbourhood, even if your neighbourhood is Chelsea or Hampstead. I think we should have more faith in people's ability to make their own judgements about how they feel about an area and if they wish to change their habits regarding personal safety.
All the posts regarding doorstep scams could be seen as scaremongering but then they also play an important role in reminding people to be cautious. Would you ban those?
Most people are also able to assess that someone's colourful rants about what they would like to do to rapists does not provide a well thought out policy on crime prevention and can be filed away mentally to the "venting" pile.
I also think that although we must be aware of contempt of court issues and of the police's need to for time to investigate a crime, simply allowing the police to control what is and is not said about crime on a public website is a mistake. While our SNT seem like helpful guys, my personal experience suggests that the Met is not always upfront about knife crime. I witnessed a stabbing on a bus in Hackney in a gang brawl in late 2009, when the victim received minor wounds to the arm but ran off bleeding when the cops showed up as he was also carrying and had been brandishing a knife. Despite CCTV and numerous witnesses, the police said that as the victim had not complained, they would not be recording it as a crime or investigating it. So a gang brawl involving numerous knives on a busy bus on a Saturday afternoon simply did not exist.
Unfortunately for them, I pursued this through the MPA (and dropped in I was a journalist, which probably helped more) and eventually it was recorded as a crime, Trident grudgingly interviewed me and another witness but said it was too late to get the CCTV as the bus companies wipe it after a few months. No one was every caught but at least it makes the Met's crime stats slightly more accurate. It probably means I am on the Met's dislike list though!
So forgive me if I think entirely relying on the police for accurate information is not a good idea.
PS I do hope the minor stabbing on Green Lanes as recorded as a crime. Forgot to ask Jono that. I suppose we should be able to spot it on the crime maps soon if it was.
I agree that people should report crimes to the police, not simply vent on the internet. If you witness a gang fight on the bus- report it to the police. And force them to take it seriously, get a crime number (telling them you work for the Evening Standard might help). They won't act unless the crime officially exists. If they are repeatedly getting reports of fights on the 29, they will eventually do something about, if only to make their stats improve.
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Plus if Hugh made an accurate map of all reported crimes, it would take the heat off poor Rowley Road ;)
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Permalink Reply by Kit on
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I agree with Elle's post, and with SarahC and Matt. The police don't always know/choose to tell us what's going on in our neighbourhood. HOL gives us exactly that info; the good stuff and the bad. Let's keep it real.
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And, funny enough, I agree with most of what Elle said too.
But it does seem as if we've had a surfeit of the breathless speculation on most of those serious crime posts over the past year or so. More factual description/reporting, whether to us or to the police, would be my way of keeping it real.
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Permalink Reply by Harringay SNT on
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The Green Lanes stabbing has been recorded in fact a named suspect has been given to us anonomously.
Unfortunately as it was gang related the `victims` will not co-operate but at least we have further intell of another gang member from this
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