Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Gangs in Haringey
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by james walsh on
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Osbawn* Yes i have. You wouldn't believe what a bunch of hair-brained idiots they are. It's a miracle they can get dressed in the morning let alone run a 'gang'. They rake in frightening amounts of cash each day (selling weed&crack) and lack anything akin to an imagination on what to spend it on. The betting office gaming machines is where a good proportion of it goes. They are more a danger to themselves than anything else. None of the gang 'owns' a gun, they take it in turns every day to hold it, always waiting for a righteous reason to use it. There's as much violence to and amongst themselves as to other 'gangs'. most of them live at home with mom & dad.
There are however more serious and deadly outfits that know exactly what they are about. For a start they're fully grown adults with military backgrounds. They are highly organised but target people in their own culture for extortion etc. They also do contract killings. these are very dangerous people but you don't see them, they don't draw attention to themselves.
The Tottenham turkish liason officer i met could speak no turkish whatsoever, not even 'hello, goodbye'.
That says as much about how out of contact the british authorities are with what's going on under their noses.
Locals do not look to the police for justice because they cannot provide it for them. I witnessed a youth who had abused a local shopkeeper, crawl into the shop on his stomach to beg forgivness from the shop owner. The youth never disrespected that shop owner again. This because the local boss man deemed it thus. He is personally in charge of over two hundred foot soldiers that can be summoned within minutes any time by phone. The reason i can report this is because these folk would never visit this website.
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Will*
I know for a fact that they won't visit this site because who i'm refering to cannot read or write. As i've mentioned above, the police have no idea whatsoever what's going on in the Turkish speaking 'criminal landscape' in Tottenham because the Turkish liason officer speaks not a word of Turkish.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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James, the linguistic divide seems to be a feature of your interesting comments. The German Chancellor Angela Merkel says that multiculturalism (in Germany) has failed; she also say that immigrants should learn to speak German. For certain groups, such as oppressive husbands, it suits that some immigrants continue not to be able to speak the mainstream language.
With language ghettos closer to home, I'm wondering if there are parallels here?
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Clive* My point is not that immigrants don't speak English but that the police don't have a single person to take the job of 'Turkish liason officer' that can speak any turkish. Even i can say 'hello, goodbye, thank you' etc.
Angela Merkel is using lazy politics. To say that multiculturalism does not 'work' is like saying existential philosophy is too hard to understand therefore it does not 'work'.
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I'm sure you right about the inability of law enforcement to penetrate these gangs – others have told me the same – but my point is that your point (lack of language skills) simply does not arise normally, it is just not a consideration.
Even Cockney rhyming slang can be deciphered thanks to many TV programmes.
On a bigger scale, post 9/11, there was much criticism in the USA of the CIA for having inadequate language skills, especially in Arabic, and for being desk-bound.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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In Berlin, the largest Turkish city outside of Turkey we have police/fire dept liason officers with a Turkish background. Recruiting them is the problem because some get problems within their own families for working within/for the German system.
Clive hit the nail on the head, when he said it was used by 'oppresive husbands'.. That is an understatement.. especially when many in the turkish/arabic community are told every friday that non-believers are lousy pork eaters and women without headdress are whores.. and where women teachers are spat at and attacked.. or German speakers are mobbed at school with more than 80% non-german speakers and called swots if they try to get on..
It's a serious and very difficult problem that needs to be and is countered by many hard working social workers. Merkel is only acting out of her own political dilema and the world's media did her a big favour by reporting her words.. and using them to stir up trouble in their own countries..
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Stephen this is as worrying as it is fascinating. Do you really think that such entrenched attitudes can be countered by social workers alone?
If I settled in Germany, I would expect to learn German. When I mentioned 'oppressive husbands' (re. learning English), I had in mind a case of an English husband and a Thai wife, but I'm sure this kind of thing goes on in many immigrant groups.
There are those in society who currently speak English but cannot read or write it. IMO, no one should be allowed to leave prison while they cannot read or write; no one should be able to leave school while they cannot read or write (English).
For similar reasons – i.e. the ability to participate fully in society – all immigrants should be required to learn the main language. Learning the main language of a country is basic and in the long run, is necessarily to immigrants' advantage. It is surely always questionable if not suspicious when learning the main language is discouraged or even suppressed.
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Clive I knew when I wrote social workers someone would question it..
maybe I should have written 'social and community workers'?
But that is the point.. for many years politicians, especially those of Merkel's political persuasion did nothing at all, saying all immigrants were 'guest workers' who would eventually go back to their own countries.
Nobody but an idiot would honestly believe that after living say.. twenty years in Europe's largest economy, people would want to swap that and go back and happily fit into Anatolian life again.
We are slipping OT so may I suggest
you look here.. and you might get an idea of the current debates by looking at the connected links. -
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Permalink Reply by Tammy Palmer on
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Will - I totally agree about removing the shrine - I live right near to this and reguarly on weekend evenings lots of young turkish men congregate there drinking and generally being a bit anti -social it can be quite intimidating, I also got off the bus behind a load of young lads heading there one Saturday and they were talking in an incredibly violent way about who they were going beat up that evening - mostly bravado I am sure, we also had a lot of men there for the anniversary - again it wasnt particularly nice and felt intimidating to walk past. I think a lot of people locally feel it should be removed but no one really dares to take any action - knowing what and who this guy was involved with doesnt make you inclined ot make an issue out of it. I did notice that a few months ago the police were there removing tributes but they appeared again almost overnight.
I also think the point about not even having anyone who speaks or perhaps even has a great understanding of this particualr community on the police force is pretty crazy - how on earth can you expect ot engage with and earn the respect of a community if you can't even understand them.
These two particular gangs are known for extreme violence as the murder of this guys shows in broad daylight as children and other people would have been walking along the road, how long is it before people going about their day to day business get caught up in all of this, it has felt like the elephant in the room that no one wants to or knows how to tackle so I am glad it is being discussed. I am sure the vast majority of people within the Turkish community would also like to see this issue tackled properly.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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I'm a bit tired of hearing how youth whether Turkish, Kurdish, black or white working class have been 'let down' by the education system and turn to crime as a result. Doing badly at school doesnt inevitably mean you go out and start knifing or shooting people.... blaming the schools, the system doesnt convince me.
Its they who are letting themselves down and their families and maybe their families and communities are letting them down. I dont think it helps that the language barrier is encouraged as part of multiculturalism with shops and restaurants using Turkish not English, advertising in Turkish when they want staff etc and keeping everything within their 'own' people. I know the English did this all over the world but its now 21st century and times have changed. We must all pull together to help tackle crime. Ghettoisation is not the answer and that is what we seem to have in some ways down Green Lanes.
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