Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Time to Tackle the Ladder Traffic Issue? - Policewoman cut out of vehicle after collision caused by car speeding down Ladder road
Last week a car speeeding down a Ladder road ran into the side of a police car travelling along Green Lanes on an emergency call. I am told that Green Lanes was closed for a while and the driver of the police car had to be cut out of her car by the fire brigade.
All Ladder roads suffer from traffic which as become worse since the closure of the Gardens. A number of people have mentioned to me that they are very concerend about the traffic due the the noise, possible damage to houses near the speed bumps and the safety aspect.
Incidents such as the one last week serve to underline the issue which we live with daily. Should 2008 be the time to tackle the issue with the council?
Tags for Forum Posts: Ladder traffic solutions, road safety, tfl, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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> “Grande Parade Traffic Free Day”
Good idea and knowing this council they would probably only accept this if it's linked to a cultural event of some sort. Any suggestions!? The idea has to be sold to the Better Haringey team who are always hungry for a radical project. They lead the charge for a ... better Haringey after all. :)
Regards pesdestrianization; yes traffic gets moved elsewhere. That's the whole idea! Other people then see the lovely, peaceful pesdestrianized area we have and want the same, starting there own campaign. Pesdestrainization has a positive spin-off, not negative. At first shops whinge like hell but once they see a pedestrianized area in action and their happy customers staying longer and spending more money, surprise, surprise they suddenly always liked the idea.
We have to think outside the box on this. Traffic surveys? OK, but don't let the council bog you down in bureaucratic detail because given half a chance they will and then it'll be another 5 years with nothing done and people bringing up the issue.
Discussing it on this forum is a good start. Thanks Hugh for bringing it up.
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Oh and TfL have to be involved because it's a main route into/ out of London. Ken likes radical ideas doesn't he. He did take on the infamous black cab drivers & Westminster council over pedestrianizing the north side of Trafalgar square after all ... and won.
Maybe a cup-o-tea with Ken's team is the place to start our campaign gathering info/strategy.
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Permalink Reply by robertmac on
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Brilliant idea to have a traffic-free day in Grand Parade - how about the nearest Sunday to St George's Day? And St George's Day itself if/when it becomes a national holiday. It would be great if traffic-free festivals took off around the country on 23rd April. As well England it is celebrated in many of the former Yugoslav Republics and elsewhere - well represented in Harringay.
As a Gardens resident with small children I'm obviously not to keen to return to the pre-bollard mother of all rat-runs, but there must be creative ways of reducing Ladder Traffic - perhaps using residents-only rising bollards and having height restrictions (triumphal arches!) to prevent vans and lorries from using the ladder roads.
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Its not about the map; it is aboput how fast traffic moves and drivers go on to wightman cos it moves faster than green lanes and then they come down a ladder Street to get to Green lanes at the point they wish to be at. If the traffic had moved smartly along green lanes there would have been very little going through the Gardens and no request to block them off. the more streets you close off the more problems yopu make for your neighbours.
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Umfreville doesn't seem to me to have excessive traffic usage at all. Is it much quieter than all the others, or have I just failed to appreciate the problem in the years I've lived here?
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I quite agree with Lucy and other members that it serves no purpose to set one group of residents against another, whether that be Ladder road against Ladder road or Gardens vs Ladder. With regards to the Gardens-Ladder issue, this website was expressly set up as a Harringay-wide site for the whole community. But that doesn't mean that from time to time there won't be a difference of opinion between Ladder and Gardens.
The history of the traffic situation from the Ladder perspective is that once the Gardens roads were closed our traffic did increase.
But I, for one, would certainly not advocate any Ladder-centric solution, (or from my perspective a Hewitt-centric one). What we need is a traffic solution that works for all Harringay. For my money that would mean being completely open about the issues and open to discussing a range of possible solutions. And that may mean trying to get the council to stop dealing with the issue piecemeal and perhaps even consider solutions as radical as the one thrown into the pot by Matt. (Perhaps a slightly more radical solution may even stand a better chance of success if it's one that'll give local politicians a showcase to trumpet their achievements). But, whatever it is, ultimately any solution must work for all Harringay (and indeed all Haringey). That will mean east, west, traders and residents and will probably require compromises by all parties.
If I were living in the Gardens, the traffic issue wouldn't be on my agenda. But I do hope that I would understand the issue faced by my neighbours on the Ladder and recognise that if the debate's going to be had anyway, the best way forward is by working together to find a good solution for all.
In terms of a way forward, I wonder whether Adam's idea of an independent traffic survey might be a good place to start.
With regards to Optique's point about Umfreville, it is true that traffic does not distribute itself evenly across the Ladder. Some roads are less busy than others. Haringey Council surveyed the traffic on the roads about three or four years ago and the stats will still be available.
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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Traffic is pretty bad going up Seymour Road as well, it's a good entry point from St Anns road up to Wighman Road, so we're getting our share of traffic.
I think speed cameras will definitely help, and also a camera at the entry point of the road, that can pick up all the idiots that speed down the wrong way, and then get extremely stroppy when you point out it's a one way street and they're going down the wrong way. Very, very dangerous!
I too am worried about damage to my property when it shudders under the weight of heavy lorries hitting the speed bumps at great speed.
I think a lot of the congestion on Green Lanes / Grand Parade would ease if they removed the parking on Green Lanes alltogether. The road is too narrow to cope with parked cars and buses that don't pull in to bus stops properly. But then again, where would people park? Hm.
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Permalink Reply by Margaret Fowler on
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Any one looked at the volume of traffic in Salisbury Road lately?
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Yes Margaret, unfortunately Salisbury Road has probably got the worst deal of all. I'd imagine you and your neighbours would welcome a traffic review.
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There have been many years (yes it has been that long) of discussions over the traffic on Green Lanes & the resulting knock on effects to the residential streets. There have been many proposals of changing traffic light phasing, opening / changing junctions & traffic flows (Salisbury Rd in reverse towards St Ann's Rd) to relieve the pressure & pinch points. There has been much talk of a holistic traffic review that was deemed too costly over 18 months ago to carry out. There have been discussions between Haringey Council & Tfl over proposed plans on what will & won't work & what can be done......
Alas it has all been talk & (little or) NO action!
I would agree that there needs to be the balance for the Residents & Traders so that all can live, & travel freely in Harringay rather than the grid lock that we see at present.
To me it seems madness that there is a bus lane to Manor House in the mornings, but no reverse in the afternoons. I appreciate that Green Lanes is not the widest of main London roads & has an excessive amount of traffic to process causing the constant congestion that is no good to either drivers, pedestrians, cyclists or residents who have to live in a toxic traffic zone. This is just one suggestion that will not solve the problem but has been around for a while.
There is no quick fix for the problem, but too much time has been wasted in just going round in circles & getting different parts of the communities backs up over proposals that come to nothing or very little, with sweeping statements sometimes made by all sides on what is best for everyone. I hope that all the sections of the Harringay Community can unite to say that something has to be done & soon. Not in another 7 years time as has been the (time that I have been involved in trying to discuss / find some kind of workable solution & get it in place) case to date.
Let's make some real progress in 2008 on making Harringay better.
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I local meeting within Harringay Ward held this week spent considerable time discussing buses and the dire traffic situation surrounding the Arena Trading Estate (includes Sainsburys).
The issue of a traffic survey was brought up and apparently this would cost about £100,000 for the whole ward to be looked at by independent survey consultants. So where to go for funding?
Haringey People magazine mentioned in its latest issue that Highways have received a significant boast in funding from the govt to £5m. Perhaps we should be knocking on their door or, I should say, an elected community representative should be.
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Just saw another accident at exactly the same spot - motor cyclist travelling south on GL knocked over by car turning right out of a Ladder road. Luckily an ambulance already there treating someone two blocks up (not sure for what). The bike rider seemed okay but obviously I don't know that.
This is an awful junction isn't it - I never come down it if I have to turn right. What is the answer?
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