Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
"Duty to Consult on felling street trees"
Last week, the council posted this notice on the tree on the corner of Oakfield Road and Quernmore Road, N4.
The council have been trying to fell this London Plane tree for about two years and it has been the subject of repeated Court action.
The notice (above) states that a replacement tree will be planted.
Is the sincerity of the consultation not doubtful?
Tags for Forum Posts: Oakfield, council, duty to consult, insurance, notice, plane, tree
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brian Mahoney on
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It does make one question the sincerety of the process.
"A root barrier was considered, however the area of excavation required for the installation and the location of the adjacent underground services meant this was not feasible."
Are we meant to take them at their word? What is the area of excavation required? Why can't a root barrier be installed around the underground services? Why is it unfeasible? If the cost is high, what is the estimation of that cost (ideally estimated by someone independent)?
That's what would be in a proper, genuine consultation process.
Put the costs on the table and then let residents decide whether the tree is more valuable.
We can't let them continue chopping down trees like this because it is the easiest solution. They are community assets.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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HARINGEY Council firmly resisted pressure from the Insurers' Loss Adjuster (Crawfords) to fell, for several years.
Then, about three or four years ago, the council accepted liability (?!). This may have occurred after the council outsourced insurance correspondence to a firm in Leeds called Plexus Law. The council have not disclosed the reason for the changed position.
But then, as you suggest, the council withhold much information about this tree and their involvement. Residents are invited to comment, but are provided with scant information on which to make informed comments.
Here's a competing notice about the tree put up recently:
(BTW, when in 2006/7 the Labour Council tried to sell Alexandra Palace to a former slum landlord, the Public Consultation was challenged in the High Court. I was in the courtroom; to paraphrase just one Justice Sir Jeremy Sullivan memorable quotes,
Show me the information [the Lease] and then I will be able to give you my opinion!
Later that afternoon—and due to their conduct—costs were awarded against the Council]
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Haringey Council in new bid to fell Stroud Green tree
Ham&High story here
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson
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A root barrier is at a minimum of 1 metre from the truck of the tree but as the roots of a mature London plane extend around three times the width of the tree canopy that’s a lot of paving, road and neighbouring front gardens to excavate and roots to chop out before the barrier is installed. The roots go down 2-3 metres so they’ll be in amongst all the underground drainage and services like electricity, gas and internet. I assume these utilities will have to disconnect before works and then reconnected afterwards.
I love street trees and this particular one is beautiful but I can’t think of an alternative.
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IS not the alternative, not to fell?
The council seem to be going through the motions with their notice and have provided scant information.
The continuing intention to cut the healthy tree is in spite of the Decision of the Financial Ombudsman (which the council considered irrelevant) and despite insurers reps finally accepting their responsibilities and naturally, despite the wishes of many residents.
This has been to Court repeatedly. It was unsettling to see a council officer and an insurance Loss Adjuster sitting side-by-side in the Court Room. If the tree is felled it may set a precedent for many other trees in the area in similar circumstances.
The council may also be trying to justify to themselves their earlier reckless and misguided attempts to fell.
Wrongly anticipating a storming of the tree by residents, the council spent £92,000 on on up to 16 security guards with four guards overnight (!?).
Three years ago in this brief video, Stroud Green Councillor Culverwell made his views known; his voice is somewhat constrained by the bicycle D-lock around his neck.
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So is the tree undermining the structure of the house nearby? If that is the case surely that needs to be addressed in some way. If so how?
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My photo from March 2023: a fraction of the total security guard platoon is visible. Note the lookout at the upper deck. Your taxes, not at work.
So is the tree undermining the structure of the house nearby?
Maybe, maybe not. There are several other possible, even likely contributory factors, but it's easy to point to a nearby tree, especially if it can delay paying for costly repairs. Undermining is present tense: the insurers, who have not behaved well, resisted their responsibilities for some 10 years.
If that is the case surely that needs to be addressed in some way.
The subsidence needs to be addressed. Finally, after a much delayed report from the Financial Ombudsman, I understand that the insurers are going to do what they should have done years ago.
If so how?
Underpinning!
The tree has been there for more than 100 years and abstracting water at this location. Felling the tree could lead to heave from groundwater and undo the repairs.
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We had to have our house underpinned some twenty years ago Clive. They dig down very deep (2 or 3 metres from memory) and of course went through the roots of the street tree that were invading the cellar, before pouring in vast amounts of concrete. The street tree died.
You’re right of course about the knock on effect of felling on the groundwater. When a huge sycamore was taken down from the garden behind us, before it fell down, we had an unintentional water feature - previously known as my garden - every time it rained for about a year until everything settled.
I can’t see any of the options, felling or death by root loss, having a particularly happy outcome for the tree.
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Councillor Culverwell is a good man. He was the only one of the Labour councillors to speak out against the attempts to rename Black Boy Lane by the now disgraced Uncle Joe Ejiofor.
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I agree and am proud to call Eldridge Culverwell a good friend.
Eldridge is mixed race; born in South Africa under Apartheid and grew up in Ian Smith's Rhodesia. It says something for his integrity that he opposed the costly, unpopular and unneccessary renaming of Black Boy Lane.
For all the right reasons, Eldridge opposed the Ejiofor-promoted folly and he even went public.
His stance may not have been popular in council circles, but was likely admired widely outside the council-bubble.
After former leader Joseph Ejiofor was prevented by his Party from re-standing in the 2022 election, the new leader could (and should) have spent some political capital and stopped the money waste, but she chose not to. A spending of our taxes likely to play into the hands of Reform Party supporters.
In relation to the Oakfield Road tree, I know that Cllr Culverwell is motivated by a passion for nature, in no small way, to his early life in Africa.
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