Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The 'monoculturisation' of Green Lanes
Since I moved to the area in 2015, the section of Green Lanes from the Overground northwards has progressively become more and more monocultural. I think it began in earnest with the huge expansion in size of the three biggest restaurants on the street - Diyarbakir, Gokyuzu, Hala, and has continued since then.
There's now over 20 Turkish restaurants/takeaways between the Salisbury and the Overground station, 8 barbers, and pretty much the rest of the street is grocery shops, jewellery shops, salons/nail parlours and cake shops, sometimes doubled up. I struggle to think of many streets in central-ish London bar Brick Lane which have so little diversity.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Turkish food and love the fresh produce in the grocers. I use the barbers most months. But, how is it that the street is so same-y? I'm genuinely interested in the dynamics of this. Is it that most of the buildings are owned by Turkish/Kurdish landlords who then rent out to other business owners/entrepreneurs in the community?
I was under the impression that councils were supposed to do what they could to enable diverse high streets. This clearly seems not to have been happening on Green Lanes over the last decade. There is now little choice for residents who live locally. Dusty Knuckle stands out as something different that seems to do very well, showing that local residents will give something different their custom, and do so in droves.
Yes there have been a few restaurants that offer something different, but in my experience they've not been great quality or targeted well at what local residents might use often. Other high streets in the general area are much more varied (Stroud Green Road, Crouch End, Stoke Newington Church St). So why is Green Lanes so totally dominated by multiple variations of the same thing? Why can't anything else get a look in?
Just to fend off predictable criticism of the above:
- Yes, I moved here knowing the area had a strong Turkish/Kurdish community, and yes, if I don't like it, I can, and may well move away from the area.
- No, I'm not racist, and do not resent the Turkish business community. I give many shops and local businesses my custom daily, preferring to shop in them over big chains whenever I can.
- Yes, this is a luxury problem during a cost of living crisis.
All I'm suggesting is that at this point, Green Lanes might be experiencing 'too much of a good thing', and that a little diversity of choice might be nice to have. And wondering why it might be the case.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Caroline on
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At the end of the day, if these restaurants did not make money, there would not be so many of them. They are always full to busting and people travel from all over London to go to them, just as they do Brick Lane. It's not even as if you have to travel far for diversity. I get so angry with this discussion as it's like telling local people they cannot have their businesses, even this has been their home for far more years than many of the complainants have been born, because there's too many of them.
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Permalink Reply by drpepper on
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No one is telling local people they can't have their businesses. But it's perfectly legitimate as a resident to be concerned about this. The expansion of the biggest restaurants to triple fronted businesses a few years back was not supposed to be permitted from what I understand, and it's a consistent theme on the street which reduces diversity and choice. It's simply not true to say that all these places are always busy - some are, others are dead, I walk past them every single day at all hours. Expanding against planning is a little different than 'having their businesses'.
We all pay council tax, and if the council is not enforcing its planning policies, and the end result is what we have, then I have a right to speak up about it.
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Okay hun, no doubt my reply will be deleted, but how dare you move to an area and start dictating how it should be. You claim to have known about the area before moving and I assume you visited it? So why move here to the million pound houses if it does not meet your specifications? The businesses are clearly making money for the local area, so why you so concerned?
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Calm down. Why would your reply be deleted? I don't run this forum and it seems to be pretty open to discussion. If you'd read my previous posts you'd know I've been here for a decade, so I've not moved here and "started dictating how it should be".
Of course other people have lived here longer, but does that mean I should just shut up and lump it and have no view on the neighbourhood? At what point of living here is it ok according to you to be able to comment on it? 20 years? 30 years? I've noticed it change in that time in the ways I've described. Of course I visited, and I live in nothing like a million pound house so you can keep your reverse snobbery.
If it doesn't bother you, that's great, I'm happy for you. It seems to bother others. Maybe we're the minority, but it seems to pop up as a topic repeatedly on here.
Your logic re. the "businesses are clearly making money" doesn't follow. If we had 20 bubble tea places, it'd be fair to say "great, but it'd be nice to be able to get a coffee sometime". "Oh but they must all be making money so shut up about it!"
Following your logic/underlying message "Don't like it, shut up", I could say to you, "well if you don't like this thread, just move on and don't comment". It's clear from the title what it's about. So if you don't like it, why comment and why are you so concerned? From your responses, it's clearly not for you.
But that would be a dick-move, so feel free to have your say. I've said my piece in multiple comments here, with nuance, trying to explain my thoughts carefully, so I've not really much else to add.
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Dude, please don’t use patronisingly gendered language. It’s a shame this forum doesn’t have a report button, as if your comment was on eg the Guardian or the Times online it would be reported and deleted by the moderators.
In case you are wondering, I am referring to the phrase “calm down love”, which I suspect you would never say to a man. Play the ball, not the player!
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Are you implying that “dude” is gendered? Cos I genuinely use the word with everyone! 😁 I tend to use it to mitigate criticism, with my intended implication being “you’re not being ok, but I still assume you’re an ok person”. Meanwhile, “calm down” is not something that I can imagine anyone saying to anyone other than a woman. Moreover using the imperative form to tell them to not be angry implies that they are incapable of engaging in rational debate without letting emotion take over, a centuries- old sexist trope.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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However you personally use the word " dude ", it certainly implies the masculine / male just as " chick " is used for a female. I have seen pubs and restaurants labelling their toilets " dudes " and "chicks". Furthermore, " calm down " is often addressed to a male particularly by the police - usually in the rather oddly phrased " calm yourself down ".
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The reason I comment is because, quite frankly, I'm not willing to ignore what is quite obvious prejudice and racism, however much you want to pretend it isn't. The Turkish and Kurdish community can have as many businesses as they want, they have as much right as everyone else.
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