Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Not very Inspiring: local Labour Twitterers stick the tweetboot in to David Schmitz & Gorrie
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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the tendency of some people to pretend that they are not party politicaly motivated, on the assumption that by hiding their real allegiances and pretending to be "objective" or "open to other arguments" and so on, they would be more able to influence others
I am intrigued, Isidoros, to know to whom you are referring and what you feel their real allegiances may be.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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The assumption is that allegiances will necessarily be political and that 'real' (political) allegiances count for more than any pretended allegiance to the truth, fairness, free-speech, open government, or listening to both sides of the argument (the latter a basic principle of our judicial system BTW and a forum in which Haringey sometimes comes a cropper).
I think Isidoros' view of criticism is probably representative of majority-group Councillors' views: that all opposition is necessarily party political opposition. This view is probably motivated by their own particular allegiance and shaped by how they see themselves (this is also the George W Bush view of the world: if you're not for us, you're against us).
This mechanistic view of motivation can be counter-productive when it drives even the merely indifferent into the arms of other parties. It can have the effect of alienating a spectrum of attitudes to the Labour Party: the politically indifferent, those sympathetic to Labour and sometimes even members of Isidoros' own Party.
Rather than having it compulsory to declare "real" allegiance in some ways it might better to make it forbidden: that way, people are forced to consider argument on its own merits, instead of thinking yes, X is likely to be right because X is member of the Z party (which my family have supported for generations) or, that A would spout that nonsense because A is B-party member and you can never trust anything a B-man say.
There's also a laziness to this view. Tell me your party allegiance and I will know how to deal with you. This might be relevant for extreme parties like the BNP or the Communist Party, but there is now so much overlap between the three main parties, knowing "allegiance" adds little in the search for truth.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Thank you for your comments Isidoros.
Naturally I'm delighted to hear of your belief in online as a complimentary channel and thank you for your recognition of HoL's work.
At the risk of nitpicking, I would find it personally helpful to clear up who you're aiming your annoyance at when you refer to "some people (who) pretend that they are not party politically motivated". Whilst I'm sure you couldn't possibly be referring to myself or to Liz, your statement does raise that as a possibility. So I will just briefly respond.
Since starting the website EVERY party has accused me personally and the site of working for another party. I'm not, nor likely ever will be a party political animal. I do my best to ensure that this site is not used for party political ends and NEVER use it that way myself.
So, I hope that's clear. If you've a mind to clarify who "annoys" you in this respect, I'm happy to listen and respond thoughtfully. Otherwise I think we're probably getting to the point when we should be closing this thread and moving on.
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Permalink Reply by E. F. Salzman on
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Hugh,
I think you do a great job. I'm so glad this site is here. I believe strongly in local politics and neighbourhood action (inherited from an activist mother in USA!) and see a lot of that around here and long may it continue.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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How do you know which people are only "pretending" not to be motivated by party politics ?
As it happens, I voted both locally and nationally for someone I knew and respected, not for the party.
Do I remind you of a confidence trickster ? If so, see you in court.
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