Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
LTN protest Monday 21st Noivember
Following the well attended recent protest against the LTNs, there is another (can't manage to post flyer)
Monday 7pm Heartlands School Station Road...full council meeting.
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Barrie Birch on
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You are absolutely right. This scheme fails unless there is a London wide free or v cheap public transport system. Clogging u and increasing pollution on Green Lanes etc, is not an answer
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Permalink Reply by Rory on
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Define ‘fail’, please, Barrie. This scheme should result in less pollution, better health outcomes and safer and nicer local streets. That feels like a pretty big win to me, not a failure at all. Or do you only judge success by travel times in your car? That feels problematic considering the current climate emergency.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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This is a good time to point out that to drive through the filters your need to apply for and be granted an exemption - even if you have a parking permit for the area or a blue badge.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Cars are not just about transport. If they were they would be built to last and very efficient and design would be stable.
Over 850,575 cars built in the UK in 2021. 82% were exported. 1,342,712 sold inc imports. That's a lot of tax.
UK used car transactions grow 11.5% in 2021 with 7,530,956 units changing hands.
864,000 manufacturing jobs inc wider industry.
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/manufacturing/ some interesting data there if you're into the why and wherefore of what's happening.
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We are on the cusp of a climate catastrophe, fast approaching the point of no return, and people are upset their car journeys are taking a bit longer. The attitudes on here are so depressing. Yes, the LTN is causing some clogging at the moment, but long-term, based on the success of other LTNs, it should reduce car usage and pollution in the borough, which can only be a good thing, surely?
Or maybe I should just save these threads for my child to read in the future when they ask us why grown ups didn't do more to save the planet when we had the chance?
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It’s absolute madness, isn’t it? People literally angrily campaigning for car use, pollution and climate change. With the flimsiest of justifications.
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The ltn supporters have made a number of assertions in this debate but not, unless I've missed them, provided any evidence that the LTN's will actually reduce car use in total and so pollution.
Personally the effects on me are that My bicycle ride home from work got much more dangerous due the congestion on seven sisters road. My son might have to have give up his sports class because a 15 min car ride now takes up to an hour. I don't consider myself "problematic through traffic" if I am wanting to drive down blackboy lane to get from one part of Haringey to another,once a week.
Criminalising with fines ordinary people who are just trying to go about their normal daily lives is bonkers.
LTN's are devisive, they set one set of residents against another on completely arbitrary grounds. One group of people get a car free Xanadu, the others get longer journeys and displaced traffic. People who rely on buses get shafted.
If big oil had a plan to undermine public support for measures to limit car use then LTN's would be part of it.
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https://www.sustrans.org.uk/for-professionals/infrastructure/an-int...
https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=ltn+reduce+pollution+evidenc...
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4132059
Do a quick google, Eddy, there's loads of evidence, if you take the time and effort to look. Although I'm not sure why it's our responsibility to hand you evidence. But yes. I think you missed them. And once again. It's been said a lot on these forums. The immediate effect of LTNs is more traffic on some roads, as rat running car volumes are pushed back on to the main arterial roads, but after time, this evens out as people use their cars less and googlemaps and Waze send traffic elsewhere. Judging LTNs over days and weeks is a poor barometer of their success and impact, so it makes no sense to do this. This is why councils commit to 6, 12 or 18 month schemes. Anyway, please have a look at this evidence. All of your issues quoted should hopefully be a short term issue.
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Haringay council have ALREADY said they won't change Bruce Grove. Enfield Council said they would listen to objections and now say they won't make changes. Why do you think alternative routes will emerge? These are the very routes that have been cut off. It's a pure fantasy to believe people will be forced out of their cars.
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Rory, et al — Harringay’s major problem is Green Lanes, a major trunk route from the N Circular to a busy access road into central London, compounded by the impenetrable wall of the railway line, all of which forces too much traffic onto too congested a road. LB Haringey have said they’ll sort GL out, but they haven’t done it, and it needs comprehensive joint action with TfL and the DfT, not piecemeal road closures in side streets. The Bounds Green LTN is a direct response to Enfield’s LTN the other side of the border, which just shunted all their traffic into Haringey; similarly, Ladder residents have complained for years that traffic displaced from The Gardens ends up on their streets, because that’s what happens — it doesn’t “evaporate” as wishful thinking would have it. In an ideal world, nobody would live more than a few minutes from work, leisure, family, etc; but it isn’t, which is why commuter traffic from Hertfordshire, Enfield, etc flows (or not) through our area and isn’t likely to stop. Sorting London’s traffic needs joined-up thinking from the councils, GLA and government — and lots of cash. The much-vaunted Walthamstow Village scheme (always a major shot in LTN advocates’ armoury) cost £20 million to create a small island of closed roads, pedestrianisation, etc, so imagine this at London-wide scale. No government will take the problem seriously enough to spend the money needed (can’t even force delivery and service vehicles all to go electric as a condition of trading in London, while TfL’s budget is under continuous attack) and spending peanuts on CCTV and bollards that just make people’s journeys longer, more difficult and more polluting — and all just for three problematic roads in St Ann’s, a ward with barely any rat-running to speak of — is a tokenistic response that solves no problems. Oh, and by the way, don’t try taking an 88 bus through Camden anytime soon: since their council closed numerous useful side roads, Parkway has become a solid morass of crawling, polluting, anti-social traffic, where bus passengers are forced to take three times as long for their journeys as before. Perhaps that was the intention all along: stop anyone going anywhere.
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What is your issue with Seven Sisters Road? I ride up the stretch between Finsbury Park and Manor House on my commute, bus lane all the way, it's been fine except sometimes a bit of congestion at the corner - once I just got off and wheeled my bike up the pavement. From there I turn down Green Lanes and right up Hermitage.
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Had quick look at some of those, things that jump out are the words "can" "if" and "should". One of the main lessons of the Brexit fiasco is that asking people to ignore the evidence of there own eyes and thier lived experience and asking them to accept technocratic solutions, statistics and condescension isna recipe for disaster.
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