Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
LTN..is it mad? Or is that me?
New LTN started today. I was working at the beginning of Langham Road, and had a small job on Cornwall Road just off St Anne's. So instead of a two minute drive, I had to drive all the way along West Green Road to Duckett's Common, turn down Green Lanes and thence all the way along St Anne's.There was a long queue of traffic and it took twenty minutes. That's 20 minutes of wasted time, and 20minutes of additional fumes along the route. So the traffic is merely displaced to major roads along with additional pollution for the residents there. Not sure what the benefit is...
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rory on
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For balance, this is the Haringey Living Streets group that you can sign up to, to promote and campaign for LTNs... https://www.livingstreets.org.uk/get-involved/local-groups/haringey Their Twitter handle is @livingstreets
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Permalink Reply by Dyl on
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It must be really jarring for car owners but I have to say, as a lifelong, non-car owning, harringey resident and cyclist, I absolutely love the LTNs.
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my friend doesn't own a car and still dislikes the LTN'. Try to have a secondary school starting child that needs to leave the house just after 7 to get from N15 to Hornsey for 8.30. It's madness!
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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Everyone, if you don't already, please recognise that LTNs are one of those issues where people’s views are often very opposed. We all hear and see enough of the harm that divided societies are doing across the world. Please, let's not make this topic in Haringey another case where we can't hold different views whilst respecting those of others. Please tread carefully and keep away from inferred or explicit personal comments.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Largely in favour of LTNs. Hopefully coming soon to the ladder roads.
Work colleagues travelling by car from outside the borough to the ladder are finding their journey times doubling though. I don't know if train routes would work for them. Yes, main roads are currently rammed and where there aren't bus lanes this may not encourage more bus journeys due to longer journey times. Someone I know, unaware of new LTNs, popped in car from Bounds Green for the ladder ... 1 hr 30 mins !!
Happily got rid of my car 8 yrs ago. Joy of not paying for maintenance/mot/road tax/parking/fines. Hire a car for UK holidays ... almost brand new with wizzard gadgets ... then I give it back for the hire company to deal with aforementioned charges. Bliss! But obviously my personal circumstances. Fully appreciate car use for tradespeople and others are necessary, electric or otherwise.
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That's exactly the sort of journey that is quite easy to do in ways that aren't in a car. The Piccadilly Line for a start or the train with short walks at either end. There isn't anywhere to park if you drive either which is what mystifies me when you hear these stories - are they really driving in circles waiting to pounce on the rare spaces. How stressful must that be?
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The only way to reduce and eventually stop car use is to stop driving schools, ban private and most commercial vehicles. So kiss goodbye to getting your Chablis delivered to your door from Waitrose. And invest massively in public transport. Have you seen the dire financial difficulties that TFL are in? I can't see any of the above happening in the global economic situation. For those that truly believe they can save the planet may I suggest this. Stop flying for leisure and for business. Stop buying goods and services from Amazon and the like, and if you're fit enough buy a bike. Otherwise the only thing that these LTNs are going to increase is congestion and the raising of C02 and associated particulate levels, and general stress levels of those that have to drive for work and those that have to take taxis due to health issues. End of. I raise Amazon as most of the junk we as a society buy from them is manufactured in China. A country that is building coal fired power stations at a rate the world has never seen before. Those that cycle or walk I salute you as you are real heroes. Sorry I should have said you believe you are heroes saving us all from a climate disaster.
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Permalink Reply by Rosamund Tomlins on
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Absolutely agree re public transport as I've said elsewhere within this post. The constant budgetary issues for TfL are concerning. I notice the 4 buses in convoy when school's out but the recent cuts of reducing frequency by even a minute or two have had a significant effect on already crammed buses obviously taking longer to arrive & taking extra time to load & unload as the crowds get bigger.
Sadly the high street shops aren't good enough to stock even basic household stuff & of good quality. E.g. trying to find specific replacement curtain gliders, & feet & legs for repairing furniture, sent me online. I try to use Ebay so it's more likely to be Royal Mail who delivers or I get parcels delivered to a shop. Only Dunelm sells the first item in sufficient quantity in a shop, & the journey there & back by bus would be highly inefficient all round. Such shopping complexes such as where Dunelm are located encourage car usage as they're difficult to get to, but at least once you're there you can shop at other places too.
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Rosamund — I think this highlights one of the flaws of the whole LTN and car travel reduction strategy. The fundamental assumptions of LTN advocates are that a) Harringay is plagued with “rat runners” and “non-local” traffic (which is never actually defined) and b) that residents all need to be discouraged from using their cars at all costs or made to find it so inconvenient they’ll give up. Unfortunately, existing infrastructure and services simply aren’t built with this in mind — you find you can’t get the items you need without going to a shopping centre specifically designed for car drivers, while many other services are either inaccessible by public transport (eg the recycling centre) or difficult to use without a car (eg a weekly family shop from Sainsbury’s in GL). So, is car access to any of these permissable as “local traffic”, or impermissable, as “non-local”, for, say, St Ann’s residents?
Yes, ideally we’d all have all the goods and services we need within a short walk or bus ride, but in reality people need to travel. Until there are wide-scale and major changes in provision and location of shops and service companies, with public transport under constant threat and increased congestion and pollution as a result of “boundary road” traffic increasing, online shopping increasing the number of delivery vehicles, and councils failing to take action on forcing “last mile” and service vehicles to go electric, the current LTN restrictions are not the solution.
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Yes! + Traffic flow is compromised by streets lined with parked vehicles but some shops are citing lack of parking provision as a reason for lack of footfall & so their businesses are unsustainable without an online service - impossible for services & salons etc so it becomes prohibitively expensive to use them. Advances in population numbers and in innovatory products to deal with some problem or other indicates the need for more variety in actual shops, but the streets are lined with grocery shops & cafes.
The closure of 2 local recycling centres (of course few people could get there before 4pm!) simply resulted in more flytipping. The resulting queues meant having to book a slot at Western Rd which made it so stressful as coordinating getting a friend to help became impossible. Taking smaller items on the bus is dreadfully inefficient with the time that takes, but I've done it.
Problem is the number of people required to pay for something results in too many people trying to access said something for everyone to use said something efficiently and conveniently.
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