Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
LTN..is it mad? Or is that me?
New LTN started today. I was working at the beginning of Langham Road, and had a small job on Cornwall Road just off St Anne's. So instead of a two minute drive, I had to drive all the way along West Green Road to Duckett's Common, turn down Green Lanes and thence all the way along St Anne's.There was a long queue of traffic and it took twenty minutes. That's 20 minutes of wasted time, and 20minutes of additional fumes along the route. So the traffic is merely displaced to major roads along with additional pollution for the residents there. Not sure what the benefit is...
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth M on
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Owning the car isn't a problem - its the type and frequency of the journeys that it is. A car that sits outside on the street gathering dust for weeks and then gets used to go a long distance to a place inaccessible by public transport unless you have a couple of days to devote to the travel process is fine. The one doing the school run and judo pickups, the sainsburys trip, the gym, the office commute etc every day is not.
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Permalink Reply by James Hawtin on
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At peek times now there is just grid lock arround my house (Harringey Ladder by Ducketts)
From my point of view I don't really understand why the LTN need to be 24x7 rather than just at peek times. I do hope planning has been considered for delivery drivers, taxis at TPL etc, from a driving point of view its navigating how to access local areas is a nightmare, I do hope google maps/waze has been updated, I already drove past a school zone thanks to google before I knew they were a thing. (Ironically I was going to Tile Kiln Lane Open Space and that was the only road to access it).
I do wonder how horrific the traffic will become if we LTN the ladder, Making all traffic go via Turnpike Lane/Endymion Road. It seems every time they make a change the ladder gets more traffic.
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I don’t have a car. Very few people who live in London need one. They think they do, but they don’t. I have children age 2 and 4. Lots of parents buy their first car because they are convinced they will need it when they have a baby. We decided to wait and see if we really did need one, but four years later we’re still walking, cycling, bussing and getting the train round London and the sky has not collapsed. I wish I lived in an LTN and am very happy for the lucky people who do.
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Permalink Reply by Pat on
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Anecdotal observations are not empirical evidence. Your use case will not suit everyone.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Fowler on
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Well, Elizabeth, Pat has well and truly put you in your place! Pat, of course anecdotal evidence is not empirical evidence. But that evidence is based upon the accumulation and analysis of thousands of individual observations, which you call "anecdotal evidence".The overwhelming evidence for LTNs and other traffic calming measures is that most people welcome them. They reduce road vehicle usage overall, and encourage walking, cycling, and public transport. Most of the people vehemently opposing them are unreconstructed petrolheads.
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Assumptions and generalisations without actual proof to back up your claims. Please point me to the study/studies confirming that the overwhelming majority welcome LTNs and that only “petrolheads” oppose them. Or are you presenting opinion as fact?
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For evidence that LTNs are welcomed by a majority of the population, go online and look at reputable, frequently peer-reviewed, articles and reports. They are not hard to find. If you are asserting an opposition to LTNs, against all evidence, against the policy of national and local government, then it is up to you to provide clear evidence that LTNs do not work.
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Evidence here of benefits of LTNs here: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n443
and here:
https://www.centreforlondon.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CFL-Stre...
and here: https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/q87fu/
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To be honest none of those I would call any of those "evidence". The BMJ one states what LTNs hope to address, but that is not evidence of success of this approach, the rest seem to be social policy self justification. None state sources.
As I said previously its not LTNs its how they have been implemented, which in IMHO has turned something that could have been a good thing into an complete mess. Sadly I would expect nothing less from Harringey, You only have to look at other traffic measures they have made like Wightman road, where they built it the wrong way round, making the exit on to Wightman road like mine for Lausanne road much more dangerous.
I just assume this perverse revenge for us rejecting the changes to the wood green CPZ.
And of course the council to get the results it wanted did the best it could to stack the results by asking only the people inside the LTNs not those locally who would be affected by them.
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- None of the reports linked provide conclusive evidence that there is overwhelming support for LTNs. The Centre for London report does not provide data on the sample size or demographics of respondents. It also seems to contradict AndrewAw1’s claim that most people in London don’t own cars (depending on the analysis it’s 50/50). The BMJ article seems to be an editorial rather than a peer-reviewed study and doesn’t answer my original question of robust data that shows an “overwhelming” majority supports LTNs.
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depends where you are - 50/50 once you get past Zone 2 (where there are also more households with more than 1 car), only 26% in eg Tower Hamlets, Haringey also less than 50%.
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