Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Finsbury Park - Krankbrothers new licence application and a licence variation
Krankbrothers who have been holding events in recent years in Finsbury Park (just down from the Manor House Gate) on two August weekends have applied for:
1. A licence variation to allow them to increase the numbers attending by 33% from 6,000 to 8,000 and also to allow them to have live music and films.
2. A new application for an additional day - which would apparently allow them three weekends of events.
Representations concerning these applications can be made to Haringey Council's Licensing Committee but must relate to one or more of the four Licensing Objectives - the prevention of crime and disorder; public safety; the prevention of public nuisance and the protection of children from harm.
Representations should be sent to licensing@haringey.gov.uk to arrive by 20 January.
Further information at:
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/business/licensing-and-regulations/lice...
Tags for Forum Posts: finsbury park, krankbrothers
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Billy T on
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Agree great news. Such good parties. You can comment or email with you support on the link and get your mates to do the same :)
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Permalink Reply by Jools on
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Hi Billy
Appreciate your support, glad you enjoy them ! - positive comments can also be registered:
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/business/licensing-and-regulations/lice...
Regards
Jools
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Hi Lauren
Appreciate your support - positive comments can also be registered:
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/business/licensing-and-regulations/lice...
Regards
Jools
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Permalink Reply by Adrian Hackney on
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Thanks, Konrad, for bringing this to our attention.
But
- The Haringey licensing page is distressingly short of detail. It gives only days and times. Does it mean every Friday, Saturday and Sunday, or are specific dates intended? How much of the Park will be occupied? What precautions are proposed to meet the 4 licensing conditions? Are we really expected to respond on the basis of almost no information? This is very poor quality communication from a Local Authority which has our interests at heart.
- And what is your view Konrad? Your note is determinedly neutral. I know nothing of Krankbrothers. Do they have a good record? You provide us with additional detail over and above what Haringey have said, but still leave us to implement web searches to find out more,
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Permalink Reply by Konrad B on
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Adrian,
I agree with your comments about the Haringey Licensing web page - the minimum possible information. The only way to get further information is to email the licensing people which is what I did. But even then you don’t get to see the application form or site plans, so one is left guessing as to what is intended.
A good example is that on the notice for the application for an additional premises licence it states “… for one event calendar day per year, staged on a date adjacent to pre-existing Krankbrother days…” This appeared to mean that either one of the two weekends would be Friday to Sunday, or that there would be a third weekend, however the impression one gets from the web page is that the extra day will apply to the two existing weekends. When I queried this with the licensing people the reply was that "THE NEW PREMISES APPLICATION is seeking one event day per calendar year for an 8000 capacity event, with regulated entertainment live music, recorded music, films etc.” - so I am assuming that the extra day only applies to one weekend.Compare this lack of information with the amount of information provided, for instance on the Camden Licensing web page. Here you will find copies of the application forms, site plans and other information.Perhaps this lack of information has to do with the fact that Haringey Council is both the park landlord (and so earns a rental fee for events) and the Licensing Authority which lays down the conditions which event organisers have to adhere to and can even refuse a licence. A conflict of interests? Am I being cynical?The area to be occupied is the same as in previous years i.e. down the hill from the Manor House Gate just after the plant nursery, facing into Harringay and on the opposite side of Green Lanes from the Hackney flats. I presume that the area will increase due to the third increase in attendance.In previous years the noise has from my perspective been just about bearable, however with a third increase in attendance and the addition of live music the noise levels will probably increase so I shall oppose the applications.Regarding the event dates the current licence allows for four days which in the past has been two weekends in August, but which weekends this year is not known by me.End date for the submission of representations. The notices on the park gates gives the date as being 20 January - as I noted in my original posting, however I have just noticed that the licensing web page gives the date as being 22 January - one of these dates must be wrong. As the notice on the gate is the legal notice as specified by the 2003 Licensing Act it is best to use the 20 January date.
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I agree about limited information re these two weekends in august when part of our park will be walled off so a private company can make money and local park users and residents will get a blasting which they have not agreed to. It is not clear which weekend has the extra days as you say. The use of the park for events in the summer months was not part of the events agreement made years ago in a previous Labour administration. We already have the prospect of 3-day Wireless with 45,000 people in July plus another 2/3 day festival a week later. So when do the residents and local people, many of whom who don’t have gardens, have the chance to enjoy the park in the summer months without having to listen to music they may not like but which is unavoidable?
And the amount of money made by Haringey Council is a pittance - £5.12p per person for every £70 ticket for Wireless (stats from HC). Given the huge arena Live Nation gets for this festival plus being next to one of the best connected tube and rail stations in London, this amount is absurd. Interesting that Crystal Palace would not have them back again this year after last year’s outing for Wireless which caused a huge backlash from the local community. The volume of music coming from these festivals stretches as far as Stamford Hill and Queens Wood in Highgate but there is no independent monitoring of the sound. As both HC and festival organisers have an interest in turning up the volume, this is exactly what happens.
The damage to the park is well known. After the last two wet weekends of Krankbrother festival there were at least 8 acres of compacted mud after 6,000 danced on the grass and a large area of grass had to be raked over with new topsoil and reseeded. It is still recovering. Previous festivals have had the same result. This park was provided for local people 150 years ago. It is not an area for the Council to make money out of at the cost to local people who want it as a park - it is not presently in safe custody. There is money in the budget to provide a park in this area without losing it for the two best months of the year.
I think local people should stand up to those who want to wall off our park for key summer months. It has really shown how important this park is during lockdown with thousands of people using it to chill out, play games and lie in the sun. This is a very densely populated part of London and the park is needed for people to enjoy nature, have peace and play in the fresh air. Not to make millions - and I mean millions - for speculators supposedly for young people. If they want to have 45,000 at a festival hold it outside London. If they can get to Glastonbury, they can get to Hertfordshire or Essex,
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Regarding the end date for submissions I contacted the licensing people and they have agreed to 22 January as being the end date.
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Hello Adrian / Konrad / Gina
My name is Jools Butterfield and I am the Licensing and Community Officer for Krankbrother.
Regarding the license application for the extra day, just to clarify that this day will be attached to an existing weekend (not a third weekend) and it's 50/50 currently whether it happens at all in 2022 given post-Covid talent and infrastructure challenges, it's more likely to be a 2023 occurrence.
On the issue of noise, the increase in capacity will not lead to an increase in volume. We aim to reduce noise complaints annually not increase them, and after studying last years reports and taking feedback from the locality we are changing some key areas to try and achieve this. We do not need to increase volume to cater for 8000 attendees over 6000 attendees based upon the figures I have seen and we have no desire to. The addition of "live music" on the license application is a "just in case" scenario similar to the additional day to give us some flexibility, but regardless it would not lead to an increase in volume anyway, and would reduce disturbance level courtesy of breaks in the audio that come with live acts.
On the issue of the compounded mud, Krankbrother pay a bond to the council pre-event and any damage that is done to the park that is not easily repairable is taken from that bond before it is returned to us. I understand the reseeding was done quickly and to the park staff's satisfaction, they gave us positive feedback regarding this.
In terms of any detail regarding the application, whether that be around the four licensing objectives, the event safety management plan or the noise management plan, please do contact me on community@krankbrotherfinsburyevents.com and I will respond. I would obviously much rather we are in a productive discourse than you put in a representation, and a harmonious existence between us and the locality is preferred, so please do contact me at any time, on these matters or any other, feel free to forward that email to anyone in the locality.
On the matter of Wireless and the disturbance that causes I can't comment as I do not work for that company.
There will be a local consultation meeting soon on Zoom chaired by myself, on which I am happy to answer any concerns directly, please email me for more details, I will be sending out an extensive letter drop to the local area informing people of this.
Hope some of this information helps, as I say please contact me at any time.
Best regards and have a nice evening.
Jools
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