Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Council Decides to Rename Black Boy Lane
Following my consideration on the origins of West Green's Black Boy name back in the summer, Haringey Council has decided to rename Black Boy Lane in West Green.
The Council have called the exercise a 'renaming consultation', but the online questionnaire offers only the ability to choose from a shortlist of two new names. So it appears that the decision to rename has already been taken with only the choice of name left to be decided.
They have issued the following press release.
The council has launched a renaming consultation with residents and businesses located on Black Boy Lane, as part of the wider Review on Monuments, Buildings, Place and Street Names in Haringey – which was launched on 12 June 2020, in response to the Black Lives Matter movement.
The council believes that the names of our monuments, buildings, places and streets must reflect the values and diversity that we are so proud of in the borough. One of the street names that has been identified as not being reflective of this is Black Boy Lane.
Meanings change over time, and the term “Black Boy” is now most commonly used as a derogatory name for African heritage men.
As part of the consultation, the council is asking residents to consider new alternative names that celebrate some of the borough’s most notable influencers, and truly reflect the borough’s rich heritage.
The two names that have been shortlisted for residents to consider are, ‘Jocelyn Barrow Lane’ and ‘La Rose Lane’. The consultation will launch today, Monday 28 September and will run for a period of 4 weeks to Monday 26 October 2020.
Letters will be arriving on Black Boy Lane residents' doorsteps this week, who can respond to the consultation using one of the following methods:
- Online: www.haringey.gov.uk/renaming-black-boy-lane.
- Email:
- bblconsultation@haringey.gov.uk
- Telephone: 020 8489 3797
- By post: Consultation Co-ordinator, The Communications Team, River Park House, 225 High Road, Wood Green, London, N22 8HQ
If Haringey residents have concerns or queries about place, street or building names in the borough, please get in touch. Send your views to Leader@haringey.gov.uk.
Bios:Dame Jocelyn Anita Barrow (15 April 1929 – 9 April 2020) was a Barbadian/Trinidadian British educator, community activist and politician, who was the Director for UK Development at Focus Consultancy Ltd. She was the first Black woman to be a governor of the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) and was founder and Deputy Chair of the Broadcasting Standards Council.
John La Rose was a publisher, poet and essayist. He founded the Caribbean Artists’ Movement and publishing company New Beacon Books which has a bookshop in Stroud Green. In 1975, he co-founded the Black Parents Movement from the core of the parents involved in the George Padmore Supplementary School incident in which a young Black schoolboy was beaten up by the police outside his school in Haringey.
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Tags for Forum Posts: blackboy lane name change, review on monuments, building place and street names
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ian Jackson-Reeves on
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JJ B,
I like your premise, but I doubt the naming of the road would have been related to the supporting escaped slaves. The road would have to have houses built and the Road have a name first. There is no historical suggestion that this Road was ever called something else apart from being associated with the Public House.
I agree that the road would never have been named in such a way to denigrate anyone.
Black Boy Hill in Bristol does have a slavery history. However, I believe that the acceptance of that History and a determination to learn from that history is important to all of us. Just as it is important not to forget the acts of genocide during world war II, the Balkans and Rwanda.
This is different than reconsidering the use of Colston as a mark of respect to a City benefactor where he obtained his riches from the Slave trade. Such a person needs to be put in context.
I am from that area and had no idea of the history of Colston until recent events. I consider that I have been educated by such events.
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Permalink Reply by Gina Fenton on
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There is NO uestion, the Black Boy pub formerly at West Green Road was named after Charles II.
And there are almost certainly NO direct associations to the slave trade, in contradiction with Bruce Castle Museum’s analysis.
The council funded museum (which we should be able to regard as does HoL as ‘authoritative’) asserts:
‘There are strong associations connecting this name to the slave trade’.
In the same paragraph it makes a dismissive reference to the real etymology:
‘there are other suggestions, including reference to King Charles II being known as ‘Black Boy’.
It is more than a suggestion. It is beyond doubt that he is the origin of the pub name. He died in 1685, five years before the first documented reference to the Black boy pub name in Tottenham. He was a massively popular figure in tumultuous times. Hundreds of English pubs were similarly named or renamed this tome as a mark of respect and an indicator of support for the restored Monarchy.
There is no supporting evidence connecting this name with the slave trade, which WAS flourishing in 1690. Slave owners, slaves, and freed slaves (some very successful) lived in Tottenham. This is evidenced in the report. But there is no evidence that the pub name was connected.
It is, however, well documented that Charles II was known as ‘The Black Boy’. It was a term of endearment for this dark haired and very popular King. The nickname was affectionately coined by his mother when he was a child.
Charles was not just ‘some old king’ (as one commentator puts it). These were seismic political times. A Devastating civil war had just taken place, followed by 11 terrifying years of dictatorship and unrest. Around 5% of the population lost their lives (the equivalent of 3 million deaths today). Every citizen would have lost friends, family, and livelihoods. It was a far greater terror than the current pandemic, and Charles’ coronation brought it to an end.
Pubs all over the country were re-named after his death to indicate their monarchist allegiances. No respectable historian would doubt that he is the source of this name. For a publicly funded museum to suggest any different is a travesty, especially given the impact this advice has probably had on local decision-makers.
Over the ensuing centuries the entomology has been lost at many such pubs. Some in the past acquired demeaning and racist pub signs, although many have retained their historic links with signs and historical references* featuring the original Stuart King.
The sign from the now closed pub on West Green Road has now gone. From memory I think it could have featured a young chimney sweep. Can anyone remember? Is there a photo, and do we know where the sign is now?
Demeaning references were inappropriate and wrong. But so it is falsify history, waste public money, and set a precedent for further Maoist insanity in the future. Not to mention inconveniencing hundreds of residents in the name of a lie.
How much more appropriate it would be to re-tell history, explain backgrounds, and use the correct portrait in SNT signage. The English Civil War was the most catastrophic this country has experienced and is certainly something all school children, of every colour, should be taught about.
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*some students of Black History have claimed Charles II as a ‘black king of England’, as outlined on the ‘Rasta Live wire’ website.
https://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egypti...).
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Can we perhaps leave a teensy space for historical doubts?
Or maybe Gina, that was the reason you used the signal of a silent 'q' ?
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Alan, and Hugh, yes I am confident and no, there is no teensy space for doubt.
Charles II died 1685. The first record of the pub name was 1690.
it is undisputed that many pubs named The Black Boy after him and that doing so was a well known political statement at the time. Do you seriously think someone used this name for that pub, at this exact time, for any other reason?
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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You're making an assumption, Gina. Whilst it may be a reasonable one, it's still an assumption and it's important to be clear about these things.
I always try and do that when I'm writing up historical pieces. Sometimes, it would be so much more convenient for a historical issue to be this way rather than that; it would fit my narrative and working theory so much better. But I always try and avoid turning an assumption into a fact.
It's fair to point out what you think is likely and why (whilst preferably offering the alternative options), but we should never claim that something is a fact unless we have irrefutable evidence to support it - and for me it should preferably be a primary source. (I've come across too many 'facts' presented in apparently authoritative published histories that have, on scrutiny, proved to be untrue).
You're right that there's plenty of evidence to support the Charles II claim, but as far as I'm aware there is no evidence that all Black Boy pubs without exception were named after Charles or in particular that that the West Green one was.
One of your links (a BBC source) says 'pubs across England called The Black Boy are generally named after Charles'.
Thanks to Bruce Castle, we know that the pub was called the Black Boy from at least as early as 1690. But that's all we have evidence for. Whilst that may lead to a reasonable assumption of a connection with Charles, it's not evidence of a direct link. Don't be afraid to be open about that: there's a strong case of a connection.
So, my view is that we should state a case with conviction, by all means, but let's be more scrupulous than others might be and be ethical enough to state that it is an assumption, albeit a well-supported one.
I'm not disagreeing with your assumption, or implying that you're mistaken; I just think that it's important to be scrupulously honest about the narratives we present. In my experience, that tends to go down well with a thoughtful audience (See for example the first comment after this historical research article I published).
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No, I have not made an assumption. Brice Castle Museum has, however.
The pub’s name may have taken on racist tones over the centuries, as it’s provenance was lost. But this can’t be repaired by denying history. Campaigners should instead reclaim the truth. The pub was affectionately named after a popular King with dark colouring because he was of African descent. It was a mark of respect. It was the opposite of racist.
Its particular idiocy to wipe out history at high public expense when the country is facing unprecedented national debt.
Fact: the pub is named after Charles II. My evidence is:
- The pub’s name is proven to originate shortly before during or just after Charles’ reign (1660-1685).
- It is accepted history that he was (affectionately) nicknamed ‘The Black Boy’ due to his colouring which is believed to have derived from his Spanish /Moorish (ie African) heritage.
- In a pub title this nickname (in 1690) was an unambiguous and well-known signal of support for monarchy. It would not have been ‘accidentally’ applied. Not at these dates.
- There may be pubs bearing this name originating at later dates which were named for other reasons- however that IS an assumption. It’s much more likely that ‘false’ images such as horses or chimney sweeps used in painted pub signs, (possibly to avoid racist inferences) have led to confusion over the origin of the pub name.
Assumption: ‘There are strong associations connecting this name to the slave trade’.
This is part of a key sentence in the Museum’s report. However, the statement it is not supported by evidence.
Clearly, slave trade was booming in 1690. Some black Tottenham residents are documented. No doubt slavers lived here. But nothing in the report links them to the pub’s name, or explains why a publican would want to use slavery as a marketing device to attract customers to their pub. Given that historians KNOW that at this time pubs were named The Black Boy for a very specific reason, the above is a disingenuous statement.
The second part of that key sentence:
‘but there are other suggestions, including reference to King Charles II being known as ‘Black Boy’’ shows that the author knows that name is a pro-monarchist reference at that date, but has dismissed it as if one of a number fanciful ideas, carrying no particular weight over the others.
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Here! Here! The penultimate Black Boy Pub sign was a caricature; it's replacement was what appears to be a chimney sweep in silhouette.
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I would love for the money being spent on this whole ill-conceived exercise to be used to help revive the (Black Boy) Pub and make it into a performance/local venue/asset once again.
Maybe Ejiofor is just showing how little power he has to really effect change that he has to go after small victories that he can gain by fiat power and simili consultations. That isn't real leadership though is it?
Have you also noticed how the council is allowing telephony operators to uglify our neighbourhood by installing their extemely ugly antennae on buildings despite there being a planning policy that says that the equipment should not harm visual amenity. I post this here as people should look at recent pix of the BBpub.
And because this has far more effect on our quality of life, including on that of so many black and brown people who live, work and go to school in this neighbourhood.
Why doesn't Ejiofor and his cabal apply the same energy on that than he has on BBL?
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Now we do need another pub and definitely one with live music. Great idea!
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Agreed, preferably one that serves ale rather than keg beer.
They are not so common on this side of Green Lanes.
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The Black Boy Pub sign, does not mean anything as many pubs over 300 years old, have had their signs drastically changed, some many times over the years by different owners. Our West Green/BBL pub is not anywhere near that old and even then when it was built, most pub owners did not have the Knowledge we have to hand today.
P.s are you sure the black/white photo is of the West Green/BBL pub?
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