Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Replacement Wheelie Bin
so, lucky for us, someone half-inched our recycling wheelie bin (just after the council started charging for replacements, funnily enough 
) and i've just called to try and get a replacement sent out.
blimey, what a palarva!
firstly, there's the £30 charge (remind me exactly what it is we pay a council tax for...), then there's the fact that an "Outreach" officer apparently needs to visit to make sure we're eligible for a replacement (actually, when i challenged this, i was told that it's not to see if we're eligible, but to determine whether our bin is actually in one of our neighbours gardens or in the vicinity) and to determine the size we're allowed. This can, apparently, take up to TEN WORKING DAYS to happen. Once they've done that, they'll call us and take payment. Then, and only then, will they "order" us a new recycling bin.
seriously, on top of being mugged by this council for a parking bay suspension for a skip ON TOP OF A SKIP LICENSE (incidentally there are tens of skips on the ladder and, it seems, we're the only plums who have had to fork out over a grand for this suspension) i have to ask whether Haringey council are just profiteering now.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Seems contrary to natural justice. The ( missing ) bin doesn't belong to you - it belongs to Veolia. Why should you have to pay out for the theft of something that doesn't belong to you ? It's not as if you stole it.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Worse than that, John. The scheme also plans for £11 profit per bin - see excerpt from Council document below (Full doc attached).
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Permalink Reply by 1vut8bf3om5m9 on
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1) The bin is in the user's custody. This seems closest to the scenario the common law calls a "bailment". In that scenario, there is a duty of care on the part of the bailee (ie the person that uses the wheelie bin). So not so much a "natural justice (law)" scenario. If something is entrusted to you and I in a bailment scenario then the duty of care to take care of the item is also upon us.
By contrast, natural law philosophy (Locke, Aristotle, Cicero, Sidney, etc) had a lot to do with the drafting of United States Constitution and, in particular the Bill of Rights. Hamilton and Madison repeatedly use the term natural law in the Federalist (the drafting notes to the US Constitution) specifically used the term "natural law". It's a bit more high level than wheelie bin custody! :)
2) "there's the fact that an "Outreach" officer apparently needs to visit to make sure we're eligible for a replacement (actually, when i challenged this, i was told that it's not to see if we're eligible, but to determine whether our bin is actually in one of our neighbours gardens or in the vicinity) and to determine the size we're allowed."
I do not think the Council is misleading on this point, and I would further posit that the Council is most interested in using the request for another bin to look for a change of use/unreported use on a premises--in particular, if it should be designated as an HMO. One indicia of an HMO residence is the demand for a lot of cubic litres of wheelie bin.
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But I don't use the wheelie bin. Veolia uses it to collect rubbish and empty the rubbish into the truck.
The bin cannot be said to be in my custody when I live on the third floor of an apartment block and Veolia has not provided me with a means of securing the bin.
We have four bins for eight flats: in whose custody are the bins ?
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Precisely John. Before the introduction of wheelie bins I bought a bin and had it stored on my property. If the bin was stolen I understood that it was my responsibility to replace it as I owned it. Some neighbours, at their own expense, has bin stores constructed to store and secure their bins.
When the contract with Veolia changed, wheelie bins were placed on my property. My consent was not asked for nor was it given. If the bins are then stolen (which I do not own nor did I give consent to place), why is it that it is my responsibility to pay for them? Also, having to pay for stolen bins was not a requirement until a few weeks ago and I have not been asked to enter into any amendment of contract or to sign up for these new terms and conditions.
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Probably true S. I was venting
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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And so it begins.
Ed, just nick someone else's bin. Preferably from one of the HMOs that aren't bovvered about HoL.
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Permalink Reply by Alyson on
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Anyone foresee an increase in the sale of padlocks and chains? I had to do this in my job at a college where people from other depts kept nicking my lecterns (pre-dating laptop presentations of course)
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I'm surprised the police aren't walking the ladder with their magic markers. It would be a simple crime to solve once you secretly had the correct address marked on the bins and we could clear out some of our shiftier neighbours (except Ed).
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Interestingly on Wednesday when my bins were emptied. They were “dumped” on the pavement 10m from my home as there are cars parked outside my house they were just left where there was a gap between the cars. Who would be responsible for the bins if they were pilfered? So annoying!
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When my bin was nicked while I was on holiday last year, I had the same irritating response about a 2 week wait for someone to visit, ostensibly to "check if I had room for a bin" - even though I was reporting the theft of an existing one. After a week of increasingly stupid back-and-forth I offered to send Veolia (who, of course, have no sense of humour) a photograph of the space where the bin had once been and copied the e-mail to LBH itself; I then had a call from the Council's (now abolished ) Neighbourhood Action Team and got a replacement within 24 hours. Except that Veolia of course then delivered two bins and had to be recalled to remove one of them. Can't honestly recommend this as a workable solution, though.
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