Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Your Neighbourhood Name: whose right to choose?
The rebranding of our neighbourhood is about to become a live issue again with the Council asserting its claimed right to choose what we're called for the signage to be erected as part of the 2013 regeneration work.
The tussle over Harringay's name has been going on for over a hundred years. Throughout that time it seems to have featured a struggle between the Council, on the one hand, claiming a right to choose and the local people, on the other, demanding a right to self-determination.
Over a hundred years ago, and long before the creation of Haringey borough, Hornsey District Council decided to change the spelling of Harringay Neighbourhood to Haringey. Local people took exception at this imposition from above and resisted the change. The opinion was expressed by, amongst others, the Harringay Ratepayers Association who represented the people of one of three Harringay Wards. Theirs was in part of what is now St Ann's Ward. The legacy of the struggle can be seen today in the signage along the Harringay Passage.
Local people won the day then and our name was safe until the latter part of the last century when the Council administration decided they had a right to change Harringay's name. Haringey Councillor and cabinet member, Nilgun Canver explained a couple of years back:
Too much emphasis on Harringay confuses everyone with the borough Haringey and I’m afraid it refers to the Harringay ward and excludes the Gardens
It's odd to see the modern day Haringey Labour party, erstwhile representatives of the people, following in the footsteps of the Tory burghers of Hornsey Council. Moreover, I'm afraid this argument just doesn't wash with me. The inhabitants of countless other London boroughs seem to manage perfectly well with boroughs and towns that bear the same name. Islington, Hackney, Camden, Enfield and many others all survive. Perhaps the real issue is that a name was chosen that doesn't share the same name as the Council's chosen administrative capital as it is the case for all the other London boroughs I've mentioned. Their vanity perhaps requires that it should do so. But is this reason enough for us to be stripped of our historical name?
For many people, this whole issue may seem esoteric and rather irrelevant. However, I'm not alone in taking a rather different view. My belief is that for our neighbourhood to thrive and for people to identify with it, it needs to have a single name. Right now, as the traders magazine posted through your door just before Christmas bears witness, we have at least three names. How can our identity and distinctiveness be developed when this is the case.
I said just now that I wasn't alone in taking a stance on this. In New York, Democrat Assemblyman Hakeem Jeffries thought the principle involved in the issue was so important that he introduced the Neighbourhoods Identity Act, requiring New York City to develop a community-oriented process of community agreement before neighbourhoods can be rebranded or boundaries redefined.
I'm with you Hakeem.
So then, which name? The current variants are:
- the original Harringay
- Harringay Green Lanes
- Green Lanes
Others have been suggested including Harringay Park and Harringay Village.
My choice is simple. I stick with Harringay. Why? Two reasons. Firstly, that's the name we've had for 130 years and I see no need to change it. Secondly, the other names don't work for me. Green Lanes is a road that runs from Newington Green to Enfield. If avoidance of confusion is the aim, this doesn't do it. Harringay Green Lanes is a three word name. Three word names don't stick. Most of them tend to get abbreviated to the first word of the name anyway. Kingston-upon-Thames for example is more commonly called Kingston. St Martins in the Fields is known as St Martins, and so on.
I suppose there is a third reason for me and that's just that I don't like people asserting rights over me that I don't believe they have. I don't believe that the Council or the Green Lanes Strategy Group have the right to change the name of the place I live in, no matter how much good work they may do. That just bridles. No, I'm with the thoroughly democratic instincts of Congressman Hakeem Jeffries. Even if I am a voice in the wilderness, I say if there's any need to tinker with the name of our neighbourhood, then let the community decide what it should be.
In 2013, as things stand the Council and the Green Lanes Strategy Group will assert their right to brand your neighbourhood as they see fit as part of the Harringay regeneration project. I was promised that the community would be given the right to choose and to influence the way that choice was made. In a few recent email exchanges I have detected the possibility of more than a little back-pedaling on this issue.
So, once I have written this post, I will email Councillor Canver, Chair of the Green Lanes Strategy Group to ask for her public commitment that the community be given the determining voice in what our neighbourhood is called.
Amendment
The following paragraphs were added as a comment to this thread by the original author on 5th Jan 2013. Since they cover key issues, and I have been told the comment is hard to find, I have copied them in below:
Having picked up on Alan's suggestion to refer to the legal situation for changing an area's name, a relatively quick spin through sources available has turned up some interesting information.
1. A neighbourhood name has no legal status.
2. The closest approximation for any legal status is contained in quasi-legal or "official" gazettes, such as the Royal Mail's PAF Gazette.
However, even though the information they contain is official rather than legal, it's fascinating to see what lengths the Royal Mail has to go to in order to change the name of a neighbourhood.
Their guidance details a three month consultation process in order to allow changing the name of a neighbourhood in its gazette. The process includes writing to every address affected as well as the MP and other official bodies.
3. Street names and numbers are governed by law, as Alan was told. The relevant legislation is the Public Health Acts Amendment Act of 1907. It says:
The local authority may, with the consent of two-thirds in number of the ratepayers, and persons who are liable to pay an amount in respect of council tax, in any street, alter the name of such street or any part of such street.
So, there is no law that governs the naming of neighbourhoods, but there are principles of justice aplenty that should guide the Council in how it behaves in a situation when it seeks to change an area's name.
As Planning Organisation, Planning Sanity puts it, a neighbourhood is:
" an area where inhabitants live and that it is their state of mind as to what constitutes their neighbourhood. A neighbourhood should not be seen to correspond to any legal or physical division, but more as a social concept, the evidence for which may be given by the people who live there."
If we take as a precedent the principles enshrined both in law and official practice and the opinion of urban experts, I can find no precedent or reference to any principle of justice which suggests that a name change can or should be imposed from above by a person, group of persons or body. At every turn I find evidence confirming my belief that the naming of a neighbourhood belongs to the people who inhabit it and should only be changed with painstaking consultation. It seems extraordinary then that any elected member or officer should even be considering taking it upon themselves or a small semi-official body to rename a neighbourhood however well meaning might be their intent.
In other areas where a change has been sought, consultations have been the norm. Staines is the most recent example.
It's difficult not to wonder, if a Council is prepared to cut corners on allowing local people self-determintaion in less weighty situations such as this, where else are such 'efficiencies' made at the cost of democratic justice?
I remain convinced that unless and until we have a proper process whereby local residents approve a change, the Council should in all documents refer to Harringay as Harringay.
Tags for Forum Posts: glsg, harringay name
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Protheroe O'Shea on
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I wonder how much will it cost Haringey to rename Harringay?
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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Oh well, the solution is provided below: "When we meet we'll see what the others think and whether there are new suggestions. This would be more democratic."
Forget the search for a cabal alternative. The Group should obviously be renamed "Demos" or "Demokratía / Democrasi". "Government of the People by 5 People for 5 People", as Ole Abe might put it.
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My mistake. From info below that should be "Government of the People by 12 People for 12 People, with secret ritual and funny handshakes." A bit like a church I know. 'Cabal' was much too kind, Hugh.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Below is a reply from Councillor Canver:
Hugh, I know you feel strongly about this but as I've said before we'll discuss it at the next meeting in Jan and we'll take a decision whether we want to open a new consultation on this. As you're well aware we did this before and decided to keep it as Harringay Green Lanes. In any case you've continued to call the area as Harringay. It didn't make any difference to you.
When we meet we'll see what the others think and whether there are new suggestions. This would be more democratic. At this stage, I commit myself to provide that debate. I'm sorry but I can't say more than that.
And my response to that was:
Of course I appreciate your right as an elected councillor to decide on the process for this. But do consider Congressman Jeffries' viewpoint. He believes the the right to decide lies with the people. So do I. This is simply not the sort of issue that should be decided by a small group of people. Its the sort of issue that clearly falls within those issues typically decided by referenda. That's what should happen here. That's democratic - that's a system of government by the whole population.
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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I'd much prefer it was just "Harringay"
Who are the people that make up the "we" in the "When we meet we'll see what the others think"? Can we find out who they are, and where they stand on the name before that meeting, and try to influence their position?
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You can find a whole wealth of information on the Green Lanes Strategy Group here
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Thanks for the link, or there is a HoL page which has a little more about it here. So from that the people would be:
Six councilors:
Gina.Adamou@haringey.gov.uk
Karen.Alexander2@haringey.gov.uk
Zena.Brabazon@haringey.gov.uk
David.Browne@haringey.gov.uk
nilgun.canver@haringey.gov.uk
david.schmitz@haringey.gov.uk
LCSP
Ian Sygrave lcsp@blueyonder.co.uk
WPRA
Geoff Amabilino
woodlandsparkra@googlemail.com
GRA
Andy gardensresidents@gmail.com
HTA
Rob Tao rob@harringay4shops.com
Shef Mehmet shef@harringay4shops.com
Is that list correct?
Are you invited to the meeting where this is discussed Hugh? And if so does what you say count?
I've put two names down for the HTA and GRA because i've heard of them both attending these meetings, do they all go or just one at a time? If both do they get just the one vote (if there is a vote?)?
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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You're missing the local Police, not that they do anything to improve the behaviour of the people present at the meetings.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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I have always been of the opinion that we should retain the historic name of Harringay. As a traditionalist when it comes to local history there would be no other logical name for the area in which we are proud to call our home. Like many others when I am asked I always say I live in Harringay.
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Ant, as to the members you have listed, I believe that their membership is a matter of public record. So I have left that as is with one exception. I have removed one name from the GRA who I believe does not attend, though they do send a second attendee. Liz Ixer, Adam Coffman and I also get invited sometimes.
In response to your questions.
1. I have been invited to attend the next meeting. We will see if my invitation stands after this post. I do hope that this open discussion doesn't change this and that I will still be able to attend since I hope I offer an alternative perspective to much of the rest of the group.
2. To the best of my knowledge, there is no formal voting. Discussions that go on in the meeting and outside of it are used to develop some sort of consensus. Where there is disagreement, final decisions are taken by the Chair.
There is broad agreement amongst the group and it hums along pretty well. I'd just like to see more breadth of views admitted.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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My invitations were related by and large to the Harringay Festival because I ran one of the stages aided by some fine volunteers. Since the business of the GLSG is conducted in two halves (or it was when I attended), it was expected that I leave before the 'confidential' stuff was discussed. Although I usually did, due to having young kids, it wasn't rigorously enforced, particularly after the change of membership post-election.
Historically, I believe David Lammy was a member when the group was set up to tackle (which it did successfully) the gang and drug culture that had got out of hand on Green Lanes. He has never attended any meeting that I've been at so I don't know if he continues to be regarded as a member.
As John says, members of the SNT also attend.
My main beef with it is that it does not release minutes or details of attendance which I believe it should as it handles large projects on behalf of the council. Glossy flyers put out sporadically are not formal accounts of meetings. Historically, it did need to keep these things a secret as the members faced very real threats from the criminals they were tackling but that culture of secrecy, very necessary at the time, should be replaced with more openness.
Does any other part of Haringey have a group, which does not release minutes of their meetings, over and above Area Forum Committee, that steers the direction of the area and is not open to the public?
Having said all that, the GLSG is made up of excellent folk who are doing good things for the neighbourhood. They just need to be better organised about sharing what they do with the rest of us and considering a more open style of meeting. Better link up with Area Forum would be a bonus which, at present, seems largely redundant despite the best efforts of its current chair to make it more inclusive.
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There's also a list of the GLSG members at the bottom of this web page: http://www.harringay4shops.com/olf_r2.htm which identifies Sue Green as the other GRA person you mention. Anyway, i've asked Nilgun and she is having the official member list and the minutes of their last few meetings sent to me so i'll report back here if that says anything different.
I've also asked some of those people where they stand on this Harringay/Harringay Green Lanes discussion and have been getting replies back so i'll try to summerise those latter, but they are saying they would take it to discussion within their groups.
One thing I was told is that the GLSG did decide a while back (i'm not sure exactly when) that the area would be renamed Harringay Green Lanes, and that the reason for that was because the use of just Harringay is confusing as the over ground main line is Harringay so does not identify the Green Lanes part of the area.
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