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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Anyone know what's the deal? Traffic backed up most of the way southbound to Tesco Metro on Green Lanes past copshop 

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, traffic

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The traffic is backed up everywhere.  There was a terrible crash on the north circular mid afternoon, at least one person is dead, and it has been closed for several hours.  Cars are still piling up my street trying to get through to Hornsey and then Holloway/Highgate to the A1.  And Beyoncé is on at the Spurs ground

Come on, Michael. We know the LTNs are specifically responsible for all congestion in north London now. 

I 100% agree with you. I've read through quiet a few comments on this page and the seem really snow flakey. Due to these LTN's been introduced it has caused a ton of traffic everywhere. The traffic now has backed onto the Roads on the Haringey Ladder, surely these cars stopping and starting, being stationery and running is now causing more harm to the residents on the Main Road of Green Lanes and the residents on the Ladder, but yet, somehow its far better for the environment and its surroundings. 

You're confusing correlation and causation here. Because you see more traffic in front of your eyes you are assuming there is more traffic, and more pollution, in general. This is not the case at all as there is no traffic in the LTNs. They don't cause traffic. People aren't driving to the borough because LTNs have been introduced. That makes absolutely no sense. And if opposing pollution, welcoming better health outcomes and doing something about the climate emergency is "snowflakey", then it's Christmas every day in this household. Again, it seems quite counterintuitive (and frankly clearly on the wrong side of history) to be pro traffic and anti all that stuff because of a little extra inconvenience behind your wheel. 

I'm not confusing anything, I'm stating logic and common sense here. I am for the environment, but I do not believe the way things are going I.E. the introduction of these LTN's are helping.

The longer you are stuck in traffic, stopping and starting the more carbon monoxide is being generated. Getting to your point of interest in a quicker manner (not speeding) means you use less carbon monoxide which is harmful to the environment.

I wouldn't mind at all if it was "a little extra inconvenience" but every other month this little bit of inconvenience increases in size.

Of course there is not traffic in the LTN's? because the roads are blocked off to these Roads/streets, I don't understand your point here, It doesn't mean pollution doesn't travel if these particular Roads are blocked off, it in turn creates more pollution for everyone else. Have you seen the backlog of traffic down Green Lanes and the Haringey Ladder? surely this extended back log of traffic isn't good for those individuals living within these Roads and streets ? is it good for their health and wellbeing if all of a sudden there is a mass of cars backlogged due to these LTN's?

There's also repairs to a burst water main on the North Circular, between Green Lanes and (to the west) Pymmes Road, closing one of two lanes. Bad enough to be reported on the TfL traffic app.

The case for LTNs would be a great deal more convincing if the council showed one iota of willingness to put their own house in order first, by electrifying their own vehicle fleet, insisting that all contractors, such as Veolia, must use EVs, and joining with the Mayor and other London boroughs to require utilities, BT, Royal Mail and “last mile” deliverers such as DPD to use EVs if they want to operate at all in London (Amazon and UPS have done it, so can the others). But there’s absolutely no sign of leadership from the council, just imposition of flowerpots, road closures and CCTV to make journeys longer and hope that traffic will somehow magically “evaporate”.

Why, Don? And have you costed this? That's going to add a lot of money to our Council Tax bills. Amazon is the fifth most valuable company in the world, with the huge resources that come with that, making investing in EV vehicles fairly straightforward. UPS, valued at $38bn is the most valuable logistics brand in the world. Haringey Council simply can't match their resources. I agree, it would be great if all the council's vehicles were EVs, but to make your support of the LTNs conditional on the council investing most likely hundreds of thousands of pounds in EV stock doesn't really make much sense. And once again, I feel this has been said a lot, the LTNs have been put in place to lesson air pollution in the borough and disincentivise car use, not to make traffic 'magically evaporate'. Air pollution in London contributes to in excess of 9,400 premature deaths every year, and costs the health system between £1.4 and £3.7 billion per year, while transport accounts for around 30% of global carbon emissions. The council has a legal obligation to reduce air pollution, and the LTNs help to fulfil that. Yes, there are more cars currently on the A-roads, but there are fewer cars and less pollution around the LTNs. I'm still enormously confused why people are so angrily against less pollution, better air quality, better quality of life and positively impacting the climate emergency because it adds some time to their car use. 

Rory — I’m not pro-car per se (I don’t drive, but do use public transport and taxis) and agree that pollution needs to be reduced. What I’m asking for is some sign that the council is leading by example, rather than just making its residents’ lives more complicated. Promised mitigation in Green Lanes hasn’t happened and there’s no sign of any moves to help public transport (eg new bus lanes, traffic light priority) or reduce traffic on GL by, say, controlling or blocking the GL/North Circular junction, all of which would start to deal with the really key problem — that GL is a major north/south artery hemmed in by the railway, and traffic will always try to find ways round it. Royal Mail, DPD, BG, BT and numerous other companies are also major enterprises, so I don’t buy the argument that they can’t afford to electrify their fleets if legislation requires. As for the council, they could start by requiring multinational Veolia to use electric dustcarts and also install lamp-post or kerbside EV charging points, even if replacing their vans takes longer until they can afford it; after all, the government has mandated the end of petrol vehicle production, so they have to start sometime.

At the moment, the council is using a stick (road closures) to make journeys longer and increase cingestion on main roads but not sharing the burden itself.

All good ideas, Don. 

Thank you, Rory. Good points well made.



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