Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Wightman Empty & Getting Peopled
On a quick trot down to Turnpike Lane I thought again how pleasant it is to see people out on the street. Click each picture for a clearer version.
Tags for Forum Posts: traffic, wightman bridge, wightman bridge closure
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Private motor vehicle ownership in London is in decline and I think preparing for more of it is a huge mistake. Its days are numbered, thank goodness.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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You've spoken words of wisdom I've failed to recognise in the past, John. So who knows, you may be right.
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Permalink Reply by Paulie on
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Hugh
I'm not entirely sure what you're implying but I will deal merely with what you have said rather than how you have said it and that is that WR should revert and GL stay as is because that is in keeping with their history. With respect, the history is nothing to the point which is that - as I have stated - there are far more reasons I can see to pedestrianise GL than there are to pedestrianise WR in the long term. If I am wrong, tell me why.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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One reason is that Wightman Road is much narrower than Green Lanes.
And " cars" are not the only traffic on Green Lanes.
Who actually walks across Wightman ? Hundreds of people going to and from Hornsey Station.
Take the blinkers off Paulie
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In my view Paul, the history is, as is so often the case, very much to the point. A road's history influences the road's purpose, is determined by and in turn influences its geography and its design. It's design fits its purpose. The geography is inescapable, the design baked in.
I accept a viewpoint that differs from mine in that a preference is stated for traffic-free high streets. I can even empathise with why a a person would take that view. To suggest a solution of shifting traffic on to a narrow residential street, however, makes no sense at all to me, particularly if that's a solution that will have a significant negative impact on the quality of life for others. In all seriousness, Paul, how would you feel about 120,000 cars a day down your road which is no wider than Wightman.
There is no easy solution to the traffic situation and we all need to work together as a neighbourhood to forge a solution. In my view making one road take all the strain is not the way forward.
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While I agree with you of course Hugh, can we please stop talking about " cars " and substitute
" motor vehicles " ?
Cyclists don't like being stereotyped: neither do car drivers.
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I entirely agree - which is why I oppose the permanent closure of Wightman Road which so many are calling for. One only needs to look at Green Lanes right now to see the problems for drivers, pedestrians and cyclists all.
I would disagree that a road's history determines its geography - rather that the geography surely influences the history? I don't know why Wightman Road was made a road but it was presumably to convey some sort of traffic from north to south. However the geography does influence its usefulness and a cycle along its length will indicate to the cyclist that GL is far more suited to that mode of transport than is the switchback that is WR!
As for the volume of traffic we have in our area, I wholly agree we need to all work together to find a solution. Indeed I have long held the view that car use should be made far less easy and attractive than it is now because it *seems* to be the case that too many car journeys are both short and unnecessary. I have no data about this - it is just my perception. Then again, I am a driver myself and so am aware am teetering (at least) on the brink of hypocrisy!
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I think you need to look at some pre WWII maps of the area to see what the council, and a V2 rocket, did to influence your thoughts today. Hornsey Park Road and Wightman Road never met, they were at least 30m apart from one another on Turnpike Lane. The council reconfigured the junction (compare it to the other end at Endymion) in preparation for the great Wood Green bypass that never happened.
(PS Can you please use the reply button when you reply to people? I don't want to be a fascist but it's hard to follow your posts if you don't).
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Wightman was set out by the British Land Company to service the Ladder roads. Without it they would all have been cul-de-sacs. It wasn't ever envisaged as a thoroughfare.
If you look at this map of 1893, you'll see that successive changes by Haringey Council over the past 50 years have sought to turn a series of narrow residential roads into a Wood Green bypass. It started as a way of giving motor vehicle access to the expensively built shopping City and its car park. You'll see that neither Wightman Road, Hornsey Park Road nor Mayes Road were set out for any other purpose than to serve residential streets.
Given a different quirk of fate, with a few junction alternations and what have you, the bypass could have snaked through the narrow roads to the east of Green Lanes. Can you imagine the mayhem?
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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
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I don't agree that Green Lane makes more sense for cyclists - it leads to the horror of Manor House and 7 Sisters if you want to go into Central London . WR on the other hand leads to some very good cycle routes to central London and West.
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Permalink Reply by Don on
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At some risk of being shot down, I’m wearing my tin hat, as I live on “the wrong side of the tracks” (well, Green Lanes, actually - I’m in Glenwood Road). I entirely sympathise with Wightman and rung road residents -- I’m sure I wouldn’t want the normal volume of traffic that passes their doors in my road -- but there also needs to be some consideration of the knock-on effect of the closure on those living on other streets and needing to use public transport.
I don’t drive or cycle, so I use buses, Overground and tube a lot, and sometimes have to take cabs to Camden. It’s entirely obvious that, even in school holidays, Green Lanes has come to a virtual standstill between about 4.00pm and 8.00pm, and is far slower than even the normal snail’s pace at other times. Bus journey times have been hugely stretched (40 minutes from around Portland Rise, south of Manor House, to the Arena entrance on a 141 last Wednesday, for example) and I’ve seen the 29 and 341 routes being cut short, presumably because buses can no longer keep to even the existing loose timetables – so the consequences of the Wightman closure are spreading beyond Harringay and affecting other people in other boroughs as well as those living here.
In an ideal world, I’m sure everyone would walk or cycle everywhere, but we all know this is impractical for huge numbers of people, especially many of the mothers with children and the older people I see regularly on buses, as well as younger commuters with long journeys. The majority of Green Lanes traffic may well be private cars, but the closure has already shown just how vital Wightman Road is in keeping domestic, commercial and public transport flowing at all. Not everyone using routes through the area is a selfish car-driver and some vehicles are even performing a public service, transporting commuters or keeping the businesses we rely on going.
There’s obviously no easy way to balance residents’ desire for less pollution and noise against others’ need to use the same roads to get somewhere. But doesn’t this closure, allied to the nature of Harringay’s Victorian road system and its saturation with all forms of transport, shows very clearly that an improvement in the lives of people in one place has a deleterious effect on those living in another?
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Thanks for the balanced contribution, Don. It is clear that a problem has been created that may need attention before the 5 months is up if it doesn't resolve itself. The power of TfL will be behind a resolution it if their bus routes are affected.
As to the longer term it's not beyond the realms of imagination that the consultants currently at work in Harringay's traffic would recommend a one-way system to the east of the Green Lanes to relieve congestion. Woodlands Park Rd could be northbound and Glenwood southbound. I wouldn't support such a move, but my point is that Wightman isn't the only solution to Green Lanes traffic.
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