Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
What if...they didn't put the speed bumps back
As you probably know. Warham has been one of the roads closed for resurfacing this week.
The quiet and carlessness has been a treat, made all the better as far as my three year is concerned by the diggers and lorries that make periodic trips up and down the road. .
Yesterday, my neighbour who has lived on Warham for 20 years came to the garden gate for a chat. He mentioned how since they put the speed bump outside his house, he has noticed the plaster cracking in his house and the increased noise of cars/lorries going over the bump. He fervently wished they would not put the bump back.
So what if they didn't put the bumps back. Would we miss them?
The quiet and carlessness has been a treat, made all the better as far as my three year is concerned by the diggers and lorries that make periodic trips up and down the road. .
Yesterday, my neighbour who has lived on Warham for 20 years came to the garden gate for a chat. He mentioned how since they put the speed bump outside his house, he has noticed the plaster cracking in his house and the increased noise of cars/lorries going over the bump. He fervently wished they would not put the bump back.
So what if they didn't put the bumps back. Would we miss them?
Tags for Forum Posts: Ladder traffic solutions, Wightman Road, speed humps
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mark Williams on
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I have lived in Pemberton for just over 10 years. I campaigned for speed control measures and was very glad when they were implemented. I didn't care what measures were implemented as long as they rigorously met certain criteria. The criteria are simple: it must be the case that whatever measures are employed make it totally obvious to the driver of the vehicle that if he/she ignores them serious damage will result to their vehicle if not their actual physical wellbeing. Actually, threat of damage to the vehicle seems to be the number one concern of car drivers. There is little or no grey area in this debate, here's the truth from experience:
1.) With 2-way traffic, the speed of vehicles will be reduced wherever they come across a vehicle coming the other way. However, because the Ladder roads are straight, a car driver at one end can usually see all the way to the other. No visible oncoming vehicle will result in a driver who is prone to speeding hitting the accelerator as hard as they can. In fact they will tend to go even faster, to try to get down the whole road before something does come the other way. The Ladder roads are long enough that a good speed can be built up. Without testing I'd say at least 50mph could be achieved. It was appalling how fast drivers used to go. I'm sure lots of people on this site can tell us all kinds of statistics about what happens to the body of a 5 year old child when it gets hit by a vehicle travelling at 50mph.
2.) When 2 vehicles travelling in opposite directions meet, and one or both of the drivers are ignorant, stupid people (a depressingly high proportion of the driving population from my clear memory), vociferous, obscene argument, or worse, will result.
Worse, when the problem is caused by only one of the parties (invariably but not always a male driver), the result is intimidation, threats and quite probably the risk of physical attack to the other party. This clearly is a bigger problem for female, elderly, or just peacable meek minded people, but after all, nobody enjoys the aggro. In fact (and I'm talking 10 years ago now, before somebody shops me to Inspector Knacker), I got so tired of seeing these kinds of people being abused and intimidated outside my house that I used to keep a lump of wood inside my front door in case anybody was actually ever physically attacked. Not to attack the offending driver I'll hasten to add, but I reckoned setting about their vehicle with gusto would be quite effective in getting them to stop. Fortunately I never had to, but I did intervene verbally on several occasions.
3.) I am a home owner and I live near a speed bump. I get cracks in my plaster. Yes, it does create a lot of noise and my house shakes when vehicles go over it. When large trucks go over it I sometimes think we must be suffering an earthquake.
I can see some solutions to this problem such as looking at alternative measures (BUT THEY MUST MEET THE MINIMUM CRITERIA - SEE ABOVE), and/or applying restrictions to stop larger vehicles using the road.
So, would I go back to flat roads, 2-way or not? Well, that's easy, the real question is whether I would trade my cracked plaster for 1 or more dead or maimed child. Err.....I guess that's a "no" then. Could we do better than humps? Sure, as long as whatever is done is effective. I have no issue with looking at alternatives.
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By coincidence a sobering article in today's Independent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-day-i-hit-a-chil...
Please let's keep the humps until (hopefully not "unless") we can find a better solution.
There are lots of drivers out there who are not nearly as nice as the doctor who wrote this...
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Sure. I think it's quite understandable that people who were not living here before the humps might imagine that removing them would be an improvement. However, this is one of those unusual situations where there is no mystery - lots of us know exactly what the result is if we go back to flat roads and/or 2-way traffic. Any efforts should be put into looking at alternative speed control measures. "Voluntary" measures alone (signs which flash to drivers going above the speed limit etc) will not do as they probably only work really well with people who are going to react to them, i.e those with a certain amount of caring about people, and an ability to project and understand the potential impact of their actions on others. Nasty sociopathic people, who can be very self-centred and lacking in empathy, imagination or remorse, will likely ignore them. Such people do however tend to be interested in self-preservation not only of themselves, but oddly also their treasured motor as well - "it's the only language they understand", as the authoritarians would say.
That's surely enough cod psychology for a Friday night though - no doubt this may provoke a storm of responses !
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Actually I was here pre-hump and am a two-way-no-humper by inclination, but the article you linked to makes a good case looked at from the perspective of those with kids.
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I think if we only changed one of the inputs to the situation (eg removed the humps), but leave everything else the same, then I am 100% confident in my dire predictions, have seen them already first hand. However, if other inputs were also changed, then who knows what might be possible, including 2-way, flat roads, whatever.
IMHO, one of the big issues with the Ladder Roads is that they are so like runways, principally a conduit from somewhere to somewhere else. Unfortunately the lack of a proper cross road, with the Passage having some issues of its own, makes it difficult to envisage an "island of calm" and community feeling like the Gardens seems to be. It's an attractive idea to close of the Wightman Road ends, focus on the Passage and maybe opening up the river. However, no doubt that has also been looked at, and I imagine traffic planning must be mainly a zero sum game, so the residents of Wightman and users of Green Lanes would no doubt suffer as a result?
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Thankfully, our first rate new(-ish) local sergeant is a traffic guy. He's got some great ideas about how traffic an be controlled on the Ladder. One can only hope he'll be listened to and that local politics won't get in the way.
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Of course we need a means of slowing down senseless speeding. The problem is just that our council planners and roadworthies aren't prepared to adopt more appropriate, environmetally friendly, family centred measures that would have the same effect. Over the years i've had the opportunity to visit several towns & cities in Europe. Most recently we visited Salzburg in Austria where its the norm to have pedestrian streets shaped & curved by small plots of trees and plants, set in decorated bases which lead into the road alternately from right & left. This soft technique simply obliges cars drivers to show proper restraint, to drive at a slower pace and not in a straight line.
The result is much softer, attractive looking streets, no thudding harsh unsightly bumps or bollards and exactly the level of traffic calming and speed control that we all - our children in particular- deserve.
Its not so hard or so expensive, its just that our planners like using concrete & tar and think we're all programmed to walk along unsightly straight roads. Its not genius. It just seems we just seem to have conditioned ourselves to living car first, people second. There's clearly a need for traffic calming but there's absolutely no need for anyone to take the hump !!
Cheers
GK
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I agree with you but that leaves nowhere to park your car.
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