Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
What if the council banned overtaking on Wightman Rd?
I wonder what people would think if the council experimented with completely banning overtaking on Wightman Rd as a step towards giving us a more liveable urban environment without offending the motorists of Crouch End and Enfield too much? The 20mph limit is set by the council and this ban would also be in their remit. Although speed limit is mostly enforced using road humps I challenge you go and visit another English town without 20mph limits in areas like Harringay, it's frightening.
The idea would be that in rush hour, maximum speeds would be enforced by cyclists and that cycling down there would be a much nicer experience. There is already precious little room or incentive (I'll get to that) for vehicles to overtake anyway.
At rush hour there are queues at either end of Wightman Rd, quite big queues, that make it nonsensical to over take anyway. We have seen video footage on here of dangerous overtaking on Wightman Rd and it has to be done at much more than the 20mph limit because of oncoming traffic and the pedestrian islands.
Thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Godfrey on
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Afterthought: I would be in agreement to no overtaking cyclists on Wightman Road if you would agree that any cyclist caught breaking a red light without good reason (danger) should have their cycle confiscated and crushed. Sound fair?
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Sounds fair, I assume this will also apply to the 80%+ of car drivers who speed and they'll have their cars confiscated and crushed as well. Compared to the 16% of cyclists who jump red lights it sounds more than fair.
Although given that of pedestrians injured in London in a collision caused by red light jumping only 4% involve cyclists, whereas 71% occur when a car driver jumps a red light and 13% when a motorcyclist does the car drivers really need to stop doing it more urgently.
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I wasn't asking you - I love how you manage to take someone else's discussion and turn it into some car hating bile post -How do you do that? It's a skill
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Apologies, I was unaware that a discussion on a public messageboard was actually a private conversation.
If quoting a few statistics re: cars and bikes on a thread that is all about cars and bikes is car hating bile then I think your bar must be set quite low.
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No I was asking the question directly to James, whom we have had a good discussion. Also I was suggesting a like for like question, you filled your response with no reference to the actual point I was making. yes it's a public discussion but I don't think you would have answered any other way no matter what the question was. My question was would you take no overtaking of cycles on Wightman Road in return for cyclist having their cycles confiscated and crushed for red light infringements ?- no statistics needed we read them a million times from you - just a yes no or some sort of response on the question - I doubt I'll get a response that fits
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I'd have no issue with cyclists having their bikes confiscated and crushed for jumping red lights if no overtaking of cycles was introduced on Wightman Road and car drivers had their cars had their cars confiscated and crushed when they broke that rule.
It would work out fine for me, I don't jump red lights when cycling but I have had any number of risky overtakes on Wightman Road. The need for car drivers to reach that next chicane before me, even if I'm going 18-20mph, seems to be extreme in some cases.
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These statistics mean nothing unless you supply the source and the method used to calculate. I could say 100 cars were surveyed and 10 infringed making 10% but 200 cycles surveyed and they only recorded a 5% infringement therefore cars are worse than bikes (when the figure is in fact identical)- see how easy it is to skew statistics in your argument favour when you leave out the real details?
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I had no idea I'd already debated this with you before (unlike yourself my contributions on here involve more than anecdotes about how nearly every cyclist you see breaks the law) and you were one of those people who somehow feel there is collective responsibility for cyclists but not for car drivers.
I have actually provided the links to you before (you went strangely quiet when I provided empirical evidence that contradicted your prejudices) but here they are again if you like.
http://www.traffictechnologytoday.com/news.php?NewsID=15562
http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/4756/cycling/stats-red-lights/index.html
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Survey date: "September 1, 2009" - Are you seriously still touting this as some sort of topical response? I think I probably didn't reply before when we spoke because I couldn't take someone seriously who has scoured the internet for a dubious survey with results that add weight to their somewhat lightweight argument. Got any thing this decade? (doubt it).
The second link is from 2012 on what looks like a pro cycling website.
So Andrew, if you are going to reinforce your point, I'd appreciate you do a bit more research and actually come back with something a bit more current.
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Fair enough, we'll drop it to the majority of drivers admit to breaking the law by speeding. A cursory glance brings up these:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_dat...
http://etsc.eu/uk-survey-reveals-many-drivers-exceeding-20-mph-limits/
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/car-industry-news/2017/11/29/uk-dr...
For red light jumping, here's your data up to 2014:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pedestrian_ksi_1_from_red_li...
I'm sure you can look at it yourself. The headline is obviously that in the 10 years of statistics cyclists haven't killed anyone through jumping a red light, car drivers have killed 40 people and assorted others have been responsible for 12 deaths.
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Permalink Reply by Graham Charnock on
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Why don't cyclists use Green Lanes instead of Wightman Road? It is wider and overtaking is seldom any problem. You can coast down onto it from Wightman without any expenditure of energy. It's just that I never hear any complaints here from Green Lanes cyclists, whereas complaints about Wightman Road are all over the place like a rash on a rugby player.
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I use Green Lanes as, bad as it is, it is still better than the shambles that is Wightman Road.
However, it is still pretty unpleasant. The bus lane is only in service for a few hours, cars constantly pull out on you from the junctions, there is always a risk of being doored by all the cars parked on there (I've seen it happen a number of times), pedestrians dart into the road from between parked cars so they're difficult to see, traffic is often at a standstill and filtering is awkward, etc.
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