Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Wards Corner temporary setback
Grainger plan voted through.
Five-four, party lines.
Wish I'd bet my house on it, then I could afford to leave. Don't want to live here any more if those are the people who have power over me.
Tags for Forum Posts: seven sisters, ward's corner
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Oh right, triple-shift cleaners will be straight into these £300k+ flats in their droves, and still have time and energy to get into citizenly activities.
Actually I guess at ten to a room they may manage it, paying rent to their landlords in Dubai. Or is it right that in fact the flats will not be for sale, only rented out ('managed') by Grainger?
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Alan your elephant story is more apposite than you appreciate. The blind are the public and they've being kept in the dark. And yet many blind men and women in Tottenham have now trodden in the squishy stuff. What can this beast be that smells so much and strongly? It is obviously a big creature.
The New Deal for Communities (NDC) had something like £100,000,000 to distribute to help Tottenham, over 10 years. At least some of this money is literally unaccounted for, as I'm sure you know. This was public money whose disbursement was effectively controlled by Haringey Council, as I'm sure you also know.
Large questions remain about this elephantine fund.
Again, as you will know, one Councillor spectacularly (and honourably) resigned from this shady organisation, around which many questions remain. Two local Tottenham women were sacked from the NDC after expressing concern about responsibility, mismanagement and how money was being used.
It is no consolation that the £2,000,000 of public money, gifted to the property developer, came from the NDC, quite the reverse.
I wonder who will switch on the light or be the sighted man, revealing the true nature of the elephant?
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Clive, please don't try to rope me into your fantasies about the New Deal for Communities in Seven Sisters, by suggesting that: "I know". Repeating years-old completely unproven allegations doesn't constitute evidence. Of course if you do have fresh evidence of any wrongdoing and want to "switch on the light" you're welcome to go and see the District Auditor. (Former councillor Ray Dodds and once I went to see them and found them very helpful.)
By the way I've no idea which honourable councillor you refer to. Though I'm sure that, like Brutus, all councillors are honourable women and men.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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To start with, I feel very strongly that the organisation has seriously mishandled the particular issue of the Wards Corner redevelopment and, for an organisation that had begun its life as “resident-led”, it has treated with indifference, if not outright contempt, the strongly held views of the vast majority of the residents and the businesses affected by these proposals. The fact that every single one of the numerous and very active residents associations in the immediate vicinity of the project is 100% against the proposed scheme, should in my view have resulted in a real discussion at the board, some genuine soul searching and a re-think.Instead I found a complete lack of willingness to listen and indeed I have been very disheartened by the rather antagonistic, evasive and at times even disingenuous methods used to undermine the legitimate efforts of local residents and traders to express their concerns and aspirations, on something that significantly and directly affects their quality of life and their livelihoods. It hurts me to say it, but I found it disturbing that the residents and traders in my ward were treated from the very start as enemies of the organisation, instead of as stakeholders. The whole philosophy underlying the promotion of resident-led organisations is to counteract such paternalistic behaviour from statutory agencies; but on this issue I am afraid we have managed to reinforce it instead.For the record:(a) The proposed development is demonstrably defective. It would lead to an overall loss and down grading of jobs in the area, the loss of unique facilities for local diverse ethnic groups, a continuing blighting of the area for at least another 4-5 years, with no contribution towards solving the housing/homelessness crisis, no contribution towards the costs of ameliorating the extra pressures on education, health and other services that it will generate, and above all, instead of improving the area it will condemn it in perpetuity to a mediocre status (just look at the drawings and tell me if that is what is meant by good design and prestige development).(b) The proposals as they stand have met with universal opposition (more than any other proposals that I have ever come across in my many years in political and community activism); think about it:They are opposed by every single residents association in the vicinity, by the West Green Traders and the Tottenham Traders Association, by every local and national amenity, conservation and design agency,Planning Aid and so on.
Not my words of course, but those of your colleague Councillor Isidoros Diakides, in his letter of resignation from the Board of the NDC in 2008 (excerpted from letter here).
The reason for his resignation, as the letter makes clear, was concern about the Wards Corner affair, the very subject of this thread. The resignation did attract publicity at the time and as Isidoros is a Labour Councillor in Tottenham, I'm surprised that you had no idea to which honourable councillor I referred. I apologise if you genuinely did not know this.
I know that you weren't able to attend the Planning Commitee meeting, but if you've had a chance to see the recording, you may have seen Cllr. Diakides speak eloquently and passionately against the Grainger Proposal. I believe he is or has been a lecturer in architecture and on a matter like this, I would have thought his views are at least as relevant as the average councillor's.
As for the "unproven allegations" concerning missing money at the NDC, this was the subject of an investigation that was leaked to the press a while ago. The report was an internal report not for public consumption, but showed that for a period, repeated, separate amounts of up to £25,000 were being given out by the NDC to applicants without any documentation. I will see if I can dig up the reference.
I will consider your suggestion about the District Auditor. I am not in possession of fresh evidence. I suspect the evidence has been in the council's possession for some time, but there is little incentive for them to do anything with it.
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Thanks for sending the excerpt from Isidoros' letter, Clive. As far as I recall I'd not seen this before. Although his views on Ward's Corner have since been widely expressed of course.
Can I also apologise for describing your comments as "fantasies". That was clearly unfair and uncalled for. However, I wasn't aware of the internal report. The only reference I've been able to find on this with a Google search is by former LibDem Cllr Wayne Hoban in July 2007 who referred to an internal Audit report from the previous year. This apparently criticised discrepancies between what the NDC's then Director was saying and the Audit Report.
Without having read a full copy of that Audit report I have no idea whether or not it also supported your assertion that "some of this money is literally unaccounted for". Presumably Cllr Hoban had a complete copy of the Audit report and I assume he shared it with his colleagues. Why don't you ask your fellow LibDem party members for a copy?
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Permalink Reply by JJ B on
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Alan do you live in cloud cuckoo land? You spend a lot of time commenting on this site but YOU ARE A HARINGEY COUNCILLOR!
By a majority vote the Labour councillors on the Planning Committee, by approving the Grainger plan, voted last month to rip the heart out of Seven Sisters-Tottenham and to so jeopordize the chances for our community (residents and businesses) to advance. You seem to take this very lightly! Do you really realize what they have done?
Stop partronizing us PLEASE! You come across as softly spoken and somewhat harmless but your engagement is very so insiduous. Every time someone makes a valid point you lance into eloquent quotes and more. Do you think that you are fooling anyone? Do any of the Councillors feel they are fooling anyone with their double-speak and games? I wish you would just declare your hand. STOP IT!
It is very clear that something is going on that has made the Labour councillors vote en bloc for the Grainger plan. Be it kick backs, donations to the Labour party, desperastion or something else. It certainly isn't the long term interests of the people of Tottenham. It could just be ineptitude.
Speaking to people - residents and business people of Tottenham, present and even future ones - up and down the High street when I am distributing leaflets, I note that people are VERY AWARE of what is going on and what is at stake; who the losers and winners are/will be.
So stop the hypocrisy. ENOUGH! STOP! YOU ARE NOT FOOLING ANYONE. KOBER AND HER CABAL ARE NOT FOOLING ANYONE!
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JJ B - I believe that Cllr Diakides is right and if Grainger's plans go ahead, he will be proved right.
The "Memory Boxes" are an indictment of the plans. They are roughly equivalent to the developer dealing in deeply discounted indulgences from the medieval church.
The Grainger's proposals came, in the long run, from a belief amongst city planners (misguided, in my opinion) that areas above and around all London's tube stations require "massing" and intensive development. I believe this is why LBH's planning service backed the plans. Many of them may sincerely believe that Grainger's Proposal is the best possible solution (I don't agree and still hope this over-building will not go ahead).
The council's relationship with developers is not as transparent as it might be and our local representatives have taken insufficent account of local wishes, the point Cllr. Diakides makes.
I don't always agree with Cllr. Stanton, but I think we should recognize that he is one of relatively few Haringey Councillors who engage with the public via this medium.
When Alan deploys one of his literary references, this shows his erudition, often his humour and, more usefully, sometimes shows that he believes distraction is required at that particular point. The Distraction Tactic can be frustrating, but at least you normally know when Alan's in a corner!
More generally, few serving politicians consistently answer questions directly. Consistent candour normally occurs after they've retired. Politician's responses often reflect competing interests, conflicts of interest and of course, party loyalties.
Have you noticed that leading politicians tend to sound even wiser and more intelligent after they've retired from office?
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Showing my erudition? You misunderstand how my mind works, Clive.
The older I get the more ignorant I realise I am. Which is frustrating but also delightful as I learn new things and meet new people. Some of the meeting is in their books and - now - on video. So telling other people about someone I'm reading or listening to isn't to "show my erudition", but an invitation for you to "meet" them too. Just like one of your friends might tell you about a new book, a great new place they visited; or a beautiful song.
Distraction? I've long been fascinated by old stories which set out to open-up our thinking and imagination. Parables; fables; Zen koans.
But JJB is right. I'll stop commenting in this thread. Only a single view is welcome.
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I do hope that Cllrs McNamara, Egan, Basu,Christophides, Demirci, Mallett, Strickland, Vanier and Watson will pick up the baton then Alan, let them try to answer these questions if you can't. The rest of the 'cabinet' may like to jump in too while they are at it. Haven't seen any of them in the neighbourhood lately.
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People who accept to be elected should also accept accounting for their actions - we elect them to represent us NOT TO DISTRACT US!
The planners may have their convictions but the councillors need to show leadership otherwise we should just do away with that level of the system.
It is clear that the Grainger type solution for "regenerating" an area may have its merits in some places. It is also quite clear that it won't benefit the people it should at Seven Sisters and in many ways it will perpetuate problems. Also the developments going up around the east of Haringey are so many missed opportunities to improve the urban environment (Hale Village! Spurs! Now Wards Corner! Next will be the row north of Tesco's.)
Look at the businesses moving in to the new buildings. Look at the number of empty units IN THE NEW BUILDINGS!
The problem is not getting new buildings but investing in better systems and management, in people!!!! to get the area out of decline. The desperation to build, build, build is killing the better things iin the area. They've gotten rid of the pubs around Tottenham Green. There will be none at Seven Sisters to replace the cafes. New flats for transient residenst instead of homes to anchor families priced out of other London Borough's. No real provisoin for support services. Such sterile development will only continue to draw problems to the area in shiny new containers!
And I'll repeat that citizens are wise enough to see through the cynicism of our councillors. There is no wonder that citizens have lost faith in the political system.
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People who accept to be elected should also accept accounting for their actions - we elect them to represent us NOT TO DISTRACT US!
Funny, I could have sworn that I posted a comment here this morning. I must have been dreaming.
It was a suggestion to JJ B that, if s/he wants to hold Cllr Stanton to account (or even to suggest that Alan is living in cloudcuckooland etc), s/he might consider revealing his/her own identity to the rest of us, with any declaration of interest s/he thinks we should know. Give Clive his due, he's open about everything he discusses. In the comment I could have sworn I'd posted, I made clear my own disinterest but not lack of interest in the discussion. And let's have no diminution of literary reference, Clive. It's the olive oil that makes the meat of discussion healthier and more palatable.
Eddie Finnegan
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