Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Trees in urban gardens
As a general rule, trees are a good thing and it is easy to understand why there is plenty of support for planting as many as possible and preserving what we have. On the other hand, there are plenty of circumstances when a particular tree or a group of trees is very far from a good thing. Because trees come in such a wide range of species and sizes, it behoves tree owners to be careful in their choice of which trees to plant or to conserve.
Moreover, it is important to realise that not all trees that we have in Harringay were planted by some human agency. Walking in ladder streets I often see ash or sycamore trees that plainly began as seedlings growing in cracks by walls. In my view, any house owner would be wise to have those things out as soon as they appear. If the roots won’t come out, then cut them flush with the ground and poison the stump with glyphosate. It’s no good dreaming that they will grow into a beautiful asset.
In the 1990s I was living abroad and a gardening company looked after my garden while I was away. After a tree blew down in a gale, the gardener suggested a replacement. What about a tulip tree he asked. In my ignorance (thinking that perhaps he meant a magnolia) I agreed. When 15 years later, I finally returned, the tulip tree was already 30 feet tall and I finally did some research – in fact the research was made easier by the fact that my wife’s uncle in Pennsylvania had a tulip tree growing by his typical wooden house. The trunk was at least three feet in diameter and it soared far above the surrounding tree canopy. According to Wikipedia, this tree is a native of Appalachia where it can grow over 150 feet tall. Obviously, this is completely inappropriate in an urban garden however large it might be. My gardener clearly was as inexperienced as I was. That tree had to go and I quickly got rid of it.
It is not just tulip trees that are wrong for urban gardens. The aforementioned ash and sycamore can also grow so big that they can completely fill a typical ladder garden and overshadow neighbouring gardens. The picture below shows a beautifully shaped sycamore which would be an asset on Hadrian’s Wall. In fact it is in a tiny garden of about 60 square metres. The tree canopy itself is larger than that so it dominates both its own location and two or three gardens to its north. As it happens, this is not a problem for me but I should not wish to have a neighbour to my south who allowed such a tree to become established.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
-
Buddleia in urban locations too - particularly when rooted in masonry - very damaging and quick-growing.
-
Permalink Reply by Mavic Starfish on
-
Agree with all of this Dick. I’ve chosen native varieties, and trees of appropriate size for an urban garden. Surrounded by sycamores from bordering buildings so judicious pruning of branches that overhang my garden border has kept them from completely overshadowing my garden. Every spring I’m hunting down any seedlings- the little buggers get anywhere and everywhere
-
-
I'm sorry. I do not mean any offence, but, please, refrain from advising people to use glyphosate in their gardens.
There are many ecologically friendly ways to deal with your gardens without risking your family, pets and plant’s health with such a poisonous substance. It would keep poisoning you for years (after using it).I have some severe health conditions due to the intensive use of such pesticides (where I used to live before moving to England). Please, never use it. You can love and take care of nature at your doorstep in unnumbered, affordable, and sustainable ways without risking your health on a daily base.
Glyphosate was such a scandal a few years ago that Monsanto was the first big company to sue Google for the so-called “right to be forgotten online.” Nowadays, it is probably barely possible to find all the details of its poisonous effects on any living creature online. It is still around due to commercial blackmailing, but it is the worst choice possible and is forbidden in most European countries.Maybe you can find more info here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9101768/
-
Permalink Reply by Dick Harris on
-
I am sorry to hear of your health problems Sabrina and I should gladly contribute to a thread about glyphosate if you would care to start one.
As this thread is about trees, I prefer not to do so here and would suggest that my post be read as though the word glyphosate were replaced by "a suitable poison".
-
-
Hi, thank you.
However, as the thread is about gardening and trees at our doorsteps, any ecologically sustainable solution that does not poison our lands and homes would always be more advisable than random chemical poisonings. ;-)
-
Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton
-
Thanks for your link, Sabrina. Which I looked up and read. But without finding clarity.
I then tried Haringey website but without becoming any clearer. Does the Council have a firm policy on the use of glyphosate? Or have practical advice about its use?
I'm still no wiser, Probably due to my getting old and less able to navigate the mass of Council web pages mentioning the legally contentious topic.
-
-
PPS To Sabrina (and other HoL members).
It niggles me that I can't find a clear answer on Haringey Council's webite about Glyphosate.
It is a Public Health issue. They have a Public Health team.Did you ask them Sabrina? It would be helpful to know their reply.
Because I may have missed the plain answers on the Council's website? Or even better, perhaps you or someone else has contacted them and received helpful advice?
If needed, Freedom of Information (F.O.I) Legislation could be a route? Which Haringey might obey.
Clive Carter recently persuaded a Tribunal chaired by a High Court Judge to instruct Haringey Council to disgorge fairly interesting financial information involving £millions. Some aspects of Clive's eventually successful persuasion extended over three years.Sabrina, have you considered an F.O.I request? You may know about a volunteer-staffed website set up for this purpose.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/All London Boroughs are up for election next year. It's not impossible that last week's local elections may have persuaded some London elected councillors that promptly telling truth to voters might rebuild some trust; and even persuade a few more people to make the effort to actually vote. Next year we can't rely on the Greens to provide a positive alternative.
Sincerely
Alan Stanton
-
Permalink Reply by Clive Carter
-
I would like to see Haringey's Director of Public Health take a wider and more active role, especially in the field of the prevention of ill health. Under the current local New Labour (conservative) Administration, unfortunately that would likely impinge on other areas and the Director would likely be told to Stay in your Lane.
———
Two small corrections on the CDC vs the ICO & LBH case
The Tribunal was expertly chaired by a Judge, but an Information Rights Tribunal Judge rather than a High Court Judge.
Two of three FoI Requests were 4 (four) years old, which is testimony to the council's ability to frustrate access to information. No one can drag their feet like a local authority when it really wants to.
The council Appealed the Tribunal's Decision. The council's six grounds of Appeal were dismissed. The council then failed to perform either one of two specific actions before two stipulated dates.
It took the lodging of an Application for Civil Contempt by Disobedience in order for the current council CEO finally to order the release of the information. All my info. requests relate to the background to 36-months of irregular property deals under the previous Administration, led by Joseph Ejiofor. The losses to public funds were huge.
Aspects of the case now are with the Upper Tier Tribunal that I understand has powers similar to the High Court.
.
-
-
Hi Alan,
If you want to know more from our council I suppose you could submit a FOI (freedom of information) request, and see what they say.
This should be the link:
https://haringey.gov.uk/council-elections/data-finance/information-...
-
-
Thanks Sabrina,
We agree about making a Freedom of Information (F.o.I.) request to Haringey Council.
Though I won't be making one directly to the Council. Much as they would prefer us all to do so. I always make my own F.o.I requests through the free website What Do They Know
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/
My reason? The independent website can cast a little light; being available for anyone to read. Writing to the Council may remain in darkness.
_____
There are some who are in darkness
And the others are in light
And you see the ones in brightness
Those in darkness drop from sight.
[From the Final added verse of Mack The Knife; words by Bertolt Brecht]
-
-
Sabrina, I agree with Alan Stanton about the best way to lodge information requests, under the powers of the Freedom of Information Act (2000).
in my view, the only reason to use the local council's facility is if you want you question to kept private. Every other reason argues to use WhatDoTheyKnow dot com (WDTK).
Any release of information by a public body is a release into the public domain. The council can and does redact, but it would be unlawful for the council to impose conditions on release, although that hasn't stopped them from trying;
Some time ago, a council lawyer wrote me a covering paper letter claiming that the document was for my information only (it was the surveyor's survey for Alexandra Palace). This was false and reflected either ignorance of the law, or it was a foolish and disgraceful attempt to mislead.
Advantages of using the free WDTK service:
- Regrettably, Haringey Council are prepared to mislead the public about Requests and WDTK keeps an eye on their conduct. WDTK has felt it necessary to issue the following statement:
- We've noticed Haringey Borough Council has started to reply to requests suggesting future requests are submitted via the council's website. This is only a suggestion and we of course encourage everyone to continue to make their requests in public via our service.
- WDTK automatically checks that a similar question has not already been asked and answered
- WDTK automatically helps as you draft your question and can preview your request
- Your WDTK Request is in the pubic domain, alerting others
- Other users of WDTK can add annotations
- Likewise, any response is in the public domain, helping others
- All correspondence (which can be lengthy) is in the one place
- WDTK will alert you if Haringey Council fails to answer within the Statutory period. However as there is no sanction on council breaches, the council feels under no obligation to obey the law
- WDTK automatically checks if the council answers partially or issues a Refusal and can advise in those circumstances, such as requesting an Internal Review.
.
© 2025 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
