Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The next four years
It's not only France that will be deciding who takes the big decisions for the foreseeable future.
We have our own local elections shortly.
So, if you want a Council that cannot tell the difference between fly-tipping and putting out a bin bag 40 mins before the allotted time - vote Labour in the local Council elections on 5 May.
Story in the Ham & High.
Crouch End woman fined £400 for putting bins out 40 minutes early
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brian on
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Great point, Liz. I wonder whether it is worth flagging this idea up again with those standing for election next week.
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Re. your comment below, Liz. I would have thought it was pretty obvious 'People like me' means people like her who put things for others for which she has no further use but are still serviceable to use at no cost in stead of selling it on, say, eBay.
I think this shows commendable community spirit and a generous nature.
I think she may be defining herself against people who do not offer their goods free to other individuals.
The write up came, no doubt, not because she transgressed and committed a heinous felony but because the choir she teaches / runs felt sympathy for her plight at having to face a £400 fine for essentially a goodwill gesture that she showed to the community.
I think she is fully aware that it would be unwise to try to recycle easily and conveniently items which are in good order and do a fellow human being a favour - so she won't do it - and society will be the poorer as a result. Well done Haringey Council!As to the "quote" what does "people like me" mean to you Brian?
Who is she grouping in that "people like me", albeit unconsciously? And who is she defining herself against? How has a sympathetic write-up in a local paper come about if not precisely because her good works which I've doubt are very worthy of recognition but are not relevant to getting a fine. Does any person fined for putting out a table get a pass if they have can demonstrate that they are of good character and have won awards for it?
It's very easy to slip into East-West politics in Haringey and demonstrate lazy assumptions on both sides (pretty sure you can buy hazelnut lattes in Tottenham too) and perhaps the article selectively quotes but there's no hint that the person fined recognises that you can't put anything on the pavement outside your house be it a rusty fridge or a bit of Chippendale furniture.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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@Brian, following on from your defence of the desk flytipping.
You seem to support a policy of allowing people to leave "serviceable items" (which would need a definition) in the neighbourhood as part of a "community recycling" programme. This seems like a good idea but to get it to work properly it would require a community consultation as not everyone may feel happy about it; a policy change from Haringey Council, and places at which people can leave things and take things so that pavements aren't obstructed by large items which might inconvenience people with disabilities, buggies or visually impaired. It is a policy I would support in principle, if it was workable and not abused i.e. commercial flytipping.
It is the way it is done in places like Japan where you can often find good quality items but they have neighbourhood recycling centres. You still can't leave things on the pavement.
Commendable community spirit can be expressed in the ways I detailed elsewhere, such as listing it as free online or putting a note in the garden offering it for free. Many people do it on this site every week giving away lots of stuff for free. I know that some people have helped others short of cash furnish homes from things from this site.
It's nice she can draw upon the generosity of others to pay her fines. We could do with more of that for teachers. I still don't think the framing of this story as a good news piece is appropriate. Her action was still fly tipping even if was done by someone with a generous nature.
I fully support any effort to get neighbourhood recycling going. I've been banging on about it for years. Maybe different voices will get better results.
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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Thanks Liz
Community clear ups were really popular and I think they were a good innovation. Collective junk clearing! But austerity bit, neighbourhood management and other services went due to the cuts. But some of the old tunes are the best ones, and I will suggest we look at this again. Organisational memory is important - in my experience it isn't always there!
Zena
Zena Brabazon
Cllr, Harringay ward
Labour Candidate, Harringay ward
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Permalink Reply by Doodle on
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Yep she thinks of herself as a good fly tipper unlike all those who live further east in the borough. Couldn't make it up but I guess Ham&High's readership were choking over their Hazelnut latte's at the disgraceful behaviour of Haringey council.
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As to the "quote" what does "people like me" mean to you Brian?
Who is she grouping in that "people like me", albeit unconsciously? And who is she defining herself against? How has a sympathetic write-up in a local paper come about if not precisely because her good works which I've doubt are very worthy of recognition but are not relevant to getting a fine. Does any person fined for putting out a table get a pass if they have can demonstrate that they are of good character and have won awards for it?
It's very easy to slip into East-West politics in Haringey and demonstrate lazy assumptions on both sides (pretty sure you can buy hazelnut lattes in Tottenham too) and perhaps the article selectively quotes but there's no hint that the person fined recognises that you can't put anything on the pavement outside your house be it a rusty fridge or a bit of Chippendale furniture.
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Not sure where you got the idea that she felt herself to be part of the class struggle in offering a serviceable desk for use by neighbours who might want one - thus saving them £££s. (How selfish and inconsiderate of her!)
Are you saying that those in the east of the borough are the real fly-tippers? This seems like a huge slur on the character of those leaving in the east. -
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"Haringey Council accidentally leaks £54m office expansion scheme."
£54m to be spent on Civic Centre when £24m would have been sufficient to ensure the fabric of the building was saved and sufficient for Council needs.
https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/local-council/haringey-council-civic...
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I wonder if the Hogarthian hordes of Tott'naam are as contemptuous of the champagne socialists in Harringay as they are of the ones in Crouch End.
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Fortunately there is a happy ending to the tale of the lady who was fined for putting her bin-liner out 40 mins early. She wrote to me today saying she contacted the Ombudsman in December: -
She writes: -
"He helped me with my case and sent a draft to the council which apparently agreed to waive my fine and according to the ombudsman draft and the council answer, Haringey will change their policy. (Reezult! BB)Agreed action: To remedy the injustice set out above, I recommended the Council within one month: Provide Ms X with a written apology for incorrectly issuing her with an FPN. • Pay Ms X £100 to recognise the distress and uncertainty she was caused by receiving the FPN.
• Write to Ms X to confirm it will cancel the FPN that was issued. 41. Within three months: • Amend its current policy relating to rubbish left out outside of scheduled collection times to reflect the government guidance. That is, by not relying on Section 33 of the Act. Rather by applying the government guidance on when to use Section 46A.
• Identify all individuals who had been issued a FPN in the past 12 months. Ensure any outstanding FPNs issued because of rubbish being left out outside of the relevant collection times are cancelled, and any that have been paid are refunded. 42. The Council has agreed to the recommended remedy.
Final decision 43. I find fault with the Council’s policy for issuing FPNs and make the recommendations set out above. The Council has now accepted the recommendations above and I have completed my investigation."She concludes: "I'm so pleased the council agreed to stop sending Fly tipping Notice to people who put their bin bags not at the exact time. I am quite happy with the result but I'm still waiting to hear from the council."
So, obviously the Ombudsman concluded that the Council's action was heavy-handed and completely disproportionate to the nature of the 'offence.'
Thankfully sanity and common sense won out. I am sure we all share her relief.
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