'Tagging' graffiti in the Passage

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on November 1, 2011 at 19:31

How about you edit the HoL wiki with some more details of the GLSG so I'm not so cynical because frankly, you're unaccountable, secretive and undemocratic. The wiki article is here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Geoff Amabilino on November 9, 2011 at 20:57

Couple of points John.

 

First off, I am the Woodlands Park rep on the GLSG and, like Zena, would prefer the 'Part 1' minutes to be public. 

 

I worked with Dasos for a long time in his role with Neighbourhood Management and, while I didn't see eye to eye with him all the time, he really cared for the area and reflected that in his work right up to the point at which he was losing his job.

 

I am unhappy about the suggestion that local shopkeepers are somehow not part of the community.  They live and work here with the rest of us.  Shef and Rob, the Traders Association reps on GLSG, put an amazing amount of effort into improving Green Lanes.

 

Finally, the GLSG structure. Undemocratic?  Six elected councillors, three resident association reps (chosen by residents), two traders (from the traders' association, with their mandate presumably).   The group could be improved - I would prefer a rotating chair and think that party politics sometimes gets in the way - but nonetheless it has achieved a lot.  If you want to know more about what goes on there, why not go along to the LCSP meetings and ask Ian?  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on November 9, 2011 at 21:22

Thanks, I've given up prioritising my attendance at the LCSP meetings.

 

Thanks also to you and Zena for admitting your ineffectiveness with regard to the minutes. As regards your sincere thoughts on Dasos, good intentions... yes, I see.

 

In case you hadn't noticed, Green Lanes is falling down. Rob and Shef put an amazing amount of effort into improving Green Lanes for the shopkeepers with regard to parking but it's nearly killing their customers! How about a recycling collection for the restaurants as Cem from Cafe Lemon asked recently? Why is he not able to ask Shef and Rob to get this sorted?

 

As you know, I don't regard RAs as particularly democratic and you're right to be skeptical about how much of a mandate the shopkeepers representatives have.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Geoff Amabilino on November 9, 2011 at 23:41

This seems to be an example of a scatter-blame-gun.

 

By what stretch of the imagination can you connect the traders association with the condition of the buildings down the length of Green Lanes?  As has been pointed out in other posts on HOL, many of the buildings are not owned by the occupying traders.

 

On the business recycling point, please enlighten me further.  My understanding - perhaps Zena or Alan can confirm - is that waste collection for businesses is not a council service, but that is up to individual businesses to buy in the waste collection services that they are required to have from whatever supplier they choose (which could be Veolia).  I am happy to be corrected on this point, but certainly that is how it used to work and thus hardly something for Shef and Rob (although I'm sure they would be happy to talk to you about it).

 

PS - I'm an ex-programmer - even scarier?

How about this as a starter for a bit of fun:

IF (What-I-Get) = (What-I-Want) THEN

     Democratic

ELSE

     Undemocratic

END

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on November 11, 2011 at 18:41

Yes Geoff, very funny. Crow and laugh at me when the minutes of the GLSG meetings are published.

 

The 'traders' are not traders, they are shopkeepers. The fact that they do not do a very good job of keeping their shops "safe" and that you merely presume that they have a mandate on the GLSG (What would you think if I turned up representing the residents of Lausanne Rd?) does not make them a good thing.

That they have such sway with the council and yet still feel no compunction to sort out their own business recycling (in this I presume that Cafe Lemon is a fully signed up member of the Shef/Rob/Nilgun club) speak volumes about their priorities (parking for customers and parking for customers).

 

I call on you to abstain yourself from membership of this rather elite group until they publish their minutes.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on November 12, 2011 at 0:36

I doubt anyone's laughing at you, John. If they're reading your posts it's more likely they're scratching their heads and trying to follow your sometimes obscure arguments. (Well, at least to me.)

So I really can't understand why it makes any difference calling a shopkeeper a trader. Or even why we need to discuss which category a business falls into.

I accept that in our society many people and groups have conflicting interests, priorities, interests and views. Plainly we are not "all in this together". (Except in the sense of the beautiful inscription on some sundials: "We are dust and shadow'.)

But while we are around and kicking, there's often considerable room for negotiation. And at least exploring the possibilities of overlapping if not shared interests. In other words the classic: "Getting to Yes"; and "win-win" solutions. For instance, it's in nobody's interest that bits of buildings fall on people in the street. I thought that was the idea behind bringing disparate groups of people together, whether face-to-face or online.

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Please clarify for me, John. Have you emailed Nilgun Canver specifically requesting copies of the Green Lanes Strategy Group minutes? If not, may I suggest you do so. If you have, then I suggest you email her a short courteous reminder.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on November 12, 2011 at 2:35

Alan, I have BCC'd you on almost every email I have ever sent the lovely Cllr Canver so when I tell you that I have never received a reply from her I hope you appreciate my reluctance to continue down this route. Are you saying that you know something (like you did with the council just deciding to drive their oversized lorries down streets other than those inhabited by the shouty man of Lausanne Rd) or that I should continue to beat my head against the /dev/null that is Nilgun's inbox because it's fun for you?

 

Shopkeepers/traders? Harringay/Green Lanes? You're being a bit dense here... deliberately?

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on November 12, 2011 at 10:22

So, John, you haven't actually asked Nilgun for copies of the minutes, but you think it's okay to post on HoL about your displeasure that she hasn't sent them to you.

". . . BCC'd on almost every email . . ."

I confess I'm pretty hopeless at managing my inbox. Especially when hundreds of people and organisations seem to cc and bcc everything they send a councillor or the Council - apparently about any topic. I assume this is for information and they don't expect 57 separate replies. But maybe I'm wrong and they're shocked at the discourtesy of the other 56 councillors.

I'm mystfied by your bccs. You and I normally exchange emails via one of my two public email addresses - blueyonder. We've used the HoL mailbox a few dozen times. But I can't trace a bcc of an email from you to Nilgun Canver on either of those. Where did you send them?

Am I saying I know something? What on earth does this mean? About what?

Is it fun for me if you bang your head against someone's inbox?

No. And I'm sorry if some of your emails to me have gone unanswered. But frankly I'm drowning in email and assume every other councillor has the same problem. Probably one reason a lot of them stroke their raspberries during meetings is to keep up with this stream. Although  "Cabinet" councillors do have support officers, a shared office in River Park House bunker, and a handsome additional allowance.

Shopkeepers/traders? Harringay/Green Lanes?  Almost certainly I'm being very dense but I haven't a clue what you're on about.

What I'm on about is the very real possibility of finding common interests and working together on common issues. Plainly if you think this is pollyanna nonsense you won't be happy about any joint meetings. And I'd also begin to wonder why you post on HoL.

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on November 12, 2011 at 12:32

I thought it was clear that I was talking about Cllr Canver with regard to emails. Alan, you are exceptionally good at responding to them. Nilgun is not, although in her defence I've noticed that the vast majority of them are to council officers and she is merely CC'd. Still, nobody responds and nobody seems to care.

 

I don't want a copy of the minutes, I want them published, there is a difference.

 

I want to know why the Harringay Bridge has a great big stupid banner on it for the shopkeepers to advertise and no other bridges in Haringey have anything like that. I presume I will find some answers in the minutes of the GLSG meetings.

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on November 12, 2011 at 14:32

"Alan, I have BCC'd you on almost every email I have ever sent the lovely Cllr Canver".

— Sorry, John, I can't find any such BCCs. Where did you send them to?

" . . . though in her [Nilgun's] defence I've noticed that the vast majority of them are to council officers and she is merely CC'd.

— If someone writes to a named council officer and CC's me, I assume they want a reply from the council officer. If you wrote to me directly and said you were having trouble getting a reply out of a named council officer I could try to assist. Or suggest an alternative. (E.g. a formal complaint; an F.o.I.)

"I don't want a copy of the minutes, I want them published, there is a difference." 

— Yes, there is a difference. But isn't getting a copy a helpful start? So far it seems you haven't actually emailed Nilgun Canver making any specific request about these minutes.

Apologising for my continued obtuseness, I'm still in the dark about why it's important if someone is described as a 'trader' or a shopkeeper'.

You don't like the banner. We agree; I don't like the banner. It's hardly a contender for hanging in Tate Modern. On the other hand, Tracey Emin's bed was nominated for the Turner prize. So what do I know?

Permalink Reply by Protheroe O'Shea on November 11, 2011 at 19:02

Yes Geoff but implying many buildings are not owned by traders you are also suggesting that some of the buildings are owned by the traders. As a member of the GLSG could you find out which traders do own the whole building and importantly the freehold. I'm sure the traders would be most open about this. Perhaps you could also enquire about the quality of the dwellings above? 

 

Finally if I set a up a residents assoc can I be invited to join the GLSG? 

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Geoff Amabilino on November 11, 2011 at 21:37

In reply to the two previous posts, I have requested that the minutes issue and a question about building ownership be added to the next GLSG agenda, although ownership of a freehold and responsibility for various aspects of a property don't necessarily do together.  I don't have a date for that right now.

 

John, abstaining from membership of the group means that I won't be in a position to argue the case, which I am undertaking to do.

 

I think I misunderstood your original point about business recycling.  In your last post, you say you want the businesses to increase their recycling.  I don't know whether they are under any obligation to do this (by which I mean legal rather than moral).  If they are, the Council can be asked to enforce.

 

GLSG membership - I cannot be categoric here but in most Council-based groups that I have been involved in, membership would be possible for a constituted local resident group.  When the group was first set up, I believe representatives were invited from the three main local resident groups.  Membership has been discussed within the last year or so, and I will seek to clarify the situation at the next meeting.

 

Regarding the quality of the dwellings above the shops, do you mean the external structure of the buildings (eg. loose stonework) or the state of the accomodation/storage?

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• Next ›
• Page