Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
'Tagging' graffiti in the Passage
There seems to be a new kid with a can of spray paint in town making a right bloody mess in the Passage with his/her talentless blue tagging. I am reporting what I see around where I am, but please report any instances of graffiti as soon as you spot them via the Report a Problem page on the council website.
In my experience, the graffiti removal people are excellent and usually pretty prompt at getting things removed so its worth a quick mail or if you're out with your mobile you can phone 020 8885 7700 or email a picture to enquiries.haringey@veolia.co.uk
Tags for Forum Posts: graffiti
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Beewan Athwal on
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But what is they're the new banksy, could be worth a bit of money in a few years?
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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trust me, it ain't. Foot high blue 'tags' inexpertly drawn. Any potential Banksy clones in Harringay might like to practice on their bedroom walls before unleashing their political commentary on the world, but writing their name on a wall with a spray can is never going to make them rich.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Liz, I entirely agree that in the past few years the contractors used by the Council to remove graffiti operated to a high standard. Almost always, after reporting tagging etc I found them reliable, quick and efficient. When I asked about the rare glitches, I discovered the contractors routinely used 'before' and 'after' digital photos. So recording was accurate simple and cheap. Very occasionally I'd spot contractors' staff cleaning-off the stuff I'd reported - and saw how effective their high pressure sprays were. (Environmentally harmless, they said.)
I had one reservation - giraffiti painted high on buildings and bridges. But I realise that getting rid of that is more difficult and often very expensive.
The contractors sent councillors links to items on their website about new techniques. And - crucially - about current research and thinking on different ways to tackle graffiti problems. To be fair, there are intelligent and thoughtful staff in Haringey's Environmental Services, some of whom are willing to share professional knowledge and thinking with councillors and residents. (Though this is by no means embedded in the Haringey culture.)
Veolia staff I've met show similar intelligence, thoughtfulness, and willingness to listen to and share ideas. But with graffiti removal the key issue is whether or not the service is operating at the same high standard as before.
So as well as reporting graffiti as soon as possible through the links given by Liz, can I please ask HoL members to report here if there is any apparent lowering of standards.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by Protheroe O'Shea on
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Just though. Why not adorn the pasage with 'easy clean' banners welcoming peoole visiting and thanking people leaving each street that form the rungs of the ladder. The banners could be paid for by 'local' businesss such as Hawes and Curtis by incorporating specaily provided spaces for advertising.
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Yes, from one viewpoint the billboard barons are just legalised 'taggers'. Brothers and sisters under the skin of their spray-paint, banners, hoardings and new Blade Runner-style illuminated boxes and animations.
But what exactly are you arguing? That they should all be legit and legal? Or that it's all subjective: art in the eye of some beholders? Or that we should try to prevent all these practices - or at least control them more effectively?
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I supect that Tunbridge is exhibiting Tongue in Cheek Syndrome consistent with Bridge's Allergy.
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HI Alan. As John D was saying my response was a bit tongue in cheek and really no help at all. But you raise an very interesting point what's worse ugly graffiti or ugly signage. Using the bridge as an an example LBoH the GRA and the TA feel the former is worse and argue that ugly signage can be used to cover up the mess like sweeping the dust under the carpet, a very naff caff carpet.
When walking through Harringay it is not the graffiti that jumps out and offends the eye. its the rotten and peeling estate agents boards hanging off the sides of buildings, gaudy shop fronts, rubbish,dog shit and beggars all embraced by the banner of many welcomes patronising its people and visitors alike
apologies though the discussion is about the passage. However, when walking down it, pushing the buggy to the ladder children's centre, Im too busy looking out for dog shit to concentrate on the graffiti.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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The only people who think the banner is "OK" are the people who advertise on it and the councillors who presumably took political donations from them (don't you dare save me from being sued by asking Hugh to delete this).
Have any of the currently elected Labour Councillors in Haringey actually read the "The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists"? No I take that back, have ALL of them read it?
In case you have forgotten Hugh's very reasoned post about advertising on Haringey's bridges it is here. In case anyone else is too busy to click on the link, Hugh used Google StreetView to document the advertising on Haringey's other bridges. The one on Green Lanes is the ONLY one with advertising on it.
Well done Harringay Shopkeepers. You really know how to work democracy.
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". . . councillors who presumably took political donations from them" (advertisers.)
Evidence please, John.
"Don't you dare save me from being sued . . ."
A cry from the heart if ever I heard one. Or are you having a Brer Rabbit moment?
Perhaps you'd like to get hold of a copy of Cass Sunstein's small book. On Rumours: How Falsehoods Spread, Why We Believe Them, What Can Be Done. It's absurdly overpriced but you can pick it up second-hand for a couple of quid. Or I'll lend you my own copy.
Sunstein thinks rumours spreading misinformation undermine democracy. Meaning open public discussion - including on this website. He suggests the internet can lead to misinformation whizzing around the planet at high speed. And describes "information cascades" where people tend to believe what their friends and allies believe.
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Unless of course the people spreading the misinformation are, in fact, the government.
Be it immigrants cats or the mythical Haringey hopscotch teachers, time and again we find the most powerful spreaders of half truths and downright lies are mainstream media and their Parliamentary friends. If it were not for blogs like full fact or journalists like Cathy Newman with her fact check blog, politicians and their friends in the media would be able to try and convince the people of all sorts of falsehoods without checks and balances. Even so, despite the best efforts of internet bloggers, myths like Winterval continue to be trotted out by populist politicians at every opportunity.
For me, these deceptions by the powerful are far worse than some conspiracy theorist on the net whose readership is probably only his mates and some fellow conspiracy theorists. Presumably, this Sunstein book has much to say on the misinformation spread by the rich and powerful, since it is far more pernicious and damaging to social relations than anything a bloke on a social network could spread.
In conjunction with this Rumours book, a copy of Heather Brooke's Silent State perhaps, since along with tolerating or even spreading misinformation, authority figures from the smallest ward panel to the Prime Minister's office make it their business to suppress and hide information about decisions taken behind closed doors and with scant regard for democracy. A small group of (often) well-meaning people can decide how to spend public money, and the agendas and minutes are not freely available to the general public. Sometimes, of course, this tips over into something less savoury
Into this silence, slips speculation and conspiracy theory. When all people hear from politicians is feel good 'win-win' press releases or statements that later prove to be less than truthful, while being denied access to the bare facts, it is hardly surprising when speculation fills the void.
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Thanks for the link to the Full Fact website. I see it carries this statement.
"Full Fact believes in the possibility of accurate, informed, enlightening political debate.
We work with politicians, journalists, experts and the public to stop inaccurate claims being made and spread; to make sure reliable information is available and mistakes are corrected, not vilified."
That, broadly, is also Cass Sunstein's aim and ideal.
So yes, we need to to expose, criticise and correct "deceptions by the powerful". Let's demand the opening-up of the hidden "Boards", "Working Groups" and hand-picked "Commissions" which are now making policy and key decisions about our lives and our neighbourhoods. Let's demand that "agendas and minutes are . . . freely available to the general public". Let's insist that instead of spin and obfuscation we get factual accuracy.
But the need for factual accuracy is not a one-way street. Heather Brooke doesn't make unevidenced allegations. On the contrary, her work is about precisely the opposite: digging out evidence, checking facts and making them public.
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So you're not going to sue me? I don't understand. All this time you've been bluffing?
Go on, I'm worth it. What are you worried about? That there is some evidence that the local councillors are in the pocket of the local shopkeepers? Surely you don't consider that nasty big banner evidence? I doubt a Judge will...
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