Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Stop Betred in Tottenham
777-779 High Road N17 8AH
consultation close on 20th Dec
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/business/licensing_regulations/lic...
Please comment and maybe help to stop this scourge.
Thanks.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ian Craine on
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I don't know the individual circumstances here but can I just make a general point about betting shops? They come in for an awful lot of stick, far more than all the bars around the place. Sometimes I wonder if there isn't a bit of a class thing going on here, and an age thing as well.
Drinking is OK because the trendy young middle classes like a drink. Gambling is for old gits and new immigrants huddled around the fruit machines. That's the perception. I love horse racing as much as I love a drink, and from my own perspective the more betting shops the better because I can do more odds comparison. And no I don't want to bet online- I like being on the High Street.
But personal interests aside are betting shops such a scourge? A pensioner can go and sit in the warm there all day if he or she wants to. Unlike in pubs there is absolutely no pressure on a customer to spend any money. So an important refuge for the fuel poor. People meet their mates there and have a nice time. Betting shops are far more inclusive racially and socially than most pubs (which exclude a lot of people by their pricing) and I've never seen any trouble in them or outside them.
I don't agree with this vendetta against betting shops. Let's have a bit more live and let live and think these issues through more carefully.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Good point Ian. I think we're being side tracked. The problem is the FOBTs inside, limited to four per shop and responsible for the proliferation on high streets. However, the fact that book makers are cynically expanding because they need a new shop to put four more of these machines on the high street, not to give you an opportunity to compare odds, still makes them pretty evil. Do we really need that many?
I also think you'll find better odds on betfair.
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Evil is rather a strong word and one I'd prefer to leave to the truly appalling things happening in the world. It's just opportunistic business practice. It may foster addiction but so does the proliferation of Tesco Expresses selling cheap rotgut ciders and lagers. I don't much care for Tescos but I'd hesitate to call them evil. Showing acid in little girls' faces because they want an education, that's evil. If we start getting too wound up by betting shops how are we going to find the words for real evil?
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Fair enough. So apart from my over-egging... you agree?
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Permalink Reply by Martin Ball on
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I have nothing against gambling or betting shops when they behave responsibly.
But the anti-social behaviour associated with the Betfred on the Totenham High Road is staggering.
There has been:
peeing at the side door,
smoking in the entrance porch,
drinking cans of beer out front,
aggressive begging of passers-by,
threats to rob from workers on the nearby market stall.
Quite enough justification for refusing the application sure to create another ASB hotspot. And good enough reasons for revoking the licence of the existing shop.
The local people suffering because of the existing Betfred shop need the Council to offer them more than a long-shot at improving the area.
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Permalink Reply by Seema Chandwani on
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Nice find JJ....!
I am a little confused, isn't this address part of the section planned for the pathway and is being knocked down?
Anyway, will do the consultation now. We do need to find out how other campaigners are succeeding as the law is complex and we need to find that 'thing' that legally allows the council to reject.
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The present shop space is empty so I do not think planning change of use can be refused. But this is a licence application not a planning one.
For info this is higher up the High rd on the West side. There are already two other gambling shops a stones throw away on corner of Northhumberland and on corner of White Hart Lane, that have taken over what used to be pubs.
How are the Spurs/Haringey Council plans going to resolve these issues? CONCRETELY?
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I'm thinking of renaming my stretch of West Green Rd, William Hill...!
They've tried the 'cluster' argument before many times and it flops. :(
Must be something....!
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We have plenty of examples from history that when the law offers no justice then civil disobedience is the answer.
Perhaps Haringey Council can simply say we don't want this second shop? And this challenges Betfred to use the courts to get the application approved.
This course of action might be legally futile, But at least we would be clear that the Council is on the side of residents, the very people funding them to improve the area.
And you never know; Betfred might not fancy the negative publicity of forcing another shop on Tottenham.
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I agree and I think this has happened in Newham and The Highlands.
Sometimes it's not about winning the case, but the message it sends. If Betting Shops feel the 'odds' are too high to come to Haringey, they won't take the 'gamble' (excuse the puns!).
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There is clearly great hostility to these betting shops. The ones I use in Green Lanes and Wood Green High Road do not as far as I have ever seen cause a nuisance. And it's not as if they are preventing other businesses opening. Shops are closing all over the place. The staff in them are generally polite, cheerful and helpful. They almost run day centres where the old and the lonely can get a cheap cuppa and a biscuit and stay out of the cold- because some of them will not be able to afford to heat their own flats. So I don't see betting shops as villains- not like the awful payday loan companies who litter our streets. Concentrate your ire on them and work to find ways to provide cheap loans for people disenfranchised by the greedy banks. Credit unions, any sort of supportive neighbourhood scheme. William Hill isn't a problem but Wonga is.
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I don't have a problem with a legal business behaving responsibly. And if they do a good pubic service then all the better. But the customers outside the Betfred near Holcombe Market are vocal and rude, and often on something stronger than a cuppa tea.
A friend told me that when passing the other day with her two young children she was abused by the crowd outside the Betfred and one of them leaned towards the buggy to it up a cigarette close to the child.
The facts are well-known. Many of the betting shops along the Tottenham High Road have been contributing to the negative appearance of the area by putting waste outside at all hours, and have also failed to control the behaviour of their customers. A stop has to be put to it. If they can't behave then they should be prevented from opening new shops.
Oh, and as the photograph shows the William Hill on the Tottenham High Road was clearly a litter problem last night.
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