Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
St Ann's LTN start date - 22 August
I'm not sure whether this has been shared elsewhere on HOL - can't see it in a search but...
We have recently received a note through our front door that the St Ann's Low Traffic Neighbourhood will be implemented on 22 August.
This is a heads-up for anyone living in or driving through the area between West Green Road and St Ann's Road. There will no longer be a direct route between the two major roads unless you are a bus or have a 'X2' exemption pass.
Woodlands Park Road, Black Boy Lane, Cornwall Road and Avenue Road will all be closed to through traffic.
The restriction points will be monitored by CCTV, so no doubt LBH will be issuing lots of PCNs! Drivers beware!
I attach two documents, one a map of the area showing the traffic cells as they will be after implementation, and the other the supporting document.
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic
- Attachments:
-
-
LTN map.pdf, 834 KB -
LTN Doc.pdf, 1.1 MB
-
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Sarah on
-
Yep. I no longer live in St Ann's but still pass through on my way to work each day. Once the St Ann's road cycle lane is also in I think finally this most dangerous part of my 6 mile commute will start to feel a lot safer. Even getting around on foot was difficult - crossing Avenue Road at the junction with West Green Road, cars speeding up there just completely ignoring people waiting to cross. I also really hope the school drop off traffic stops as I encounter a lot of cars coming towards me on streets too narrow for both of us.
-
Permalink Reply by pamish on
-
From a very quick look, I have one response which is, did they consider the effect on adjacent areas? How do we get into Broad Lane from Seven Sisters Road or the HIgh Rd iif heading north, as that's a no-right-turn? The only way in is via West Green Road so it means somehow accessing WG Rd or vioa the side roads off 7Sis Rd. The removal of the one-way xx years ago was about solving the problem of that right turn into Broad Lane where traffic used to back up miles. There's no overview of the way traffic actually flows with all of Essex coming on and off the A503.
I'll ask the Head of Highways but don't have much hope of a sensible response. We've had no notice this side of the HIgh Rd so there's gonna be a lot of confused/angry people doing a lot of surplus miles.
-
Permalink Reply by Geoff Amabilino on
-
I *think* that as you come north from Stamford Hill, you have to turn left up Seven Sisters Road, then immediate right up the side road and right again at the far end on to West Green Road. That side road is already jammed up a lot of the time...
-
-
That's what we do at the mo, use Suffield Road behind Wards Corner. This is still ok from the HIgh Rd but there's a no left turn flag on the above map coming from 7Sisters Rd. That could mean turning up the High Rd and driving round the block vias Monument Way -a distance of over a mile. That's a lot of petrol. Getting onto W G Rd from little Suffield rd can take a looong time, not least as there is no control of parking across the junction.
It's all a pig's ear. W Green Rd is a narrow road with tiny pavements and is a bus route. When the one-way was taken out I asked the Men With Clipboards what they planned to do with W G Rd, but they were only concerned with TFL roads ao did not have to consider any of the other feeder roads into the junction.
I've +/- stopped driving as there are plenty of alternatives but all of Essex hasn't. I want a toll bridge on Forest Road.
-
Permalink Reply by K. E. Hubbard on
-
This may sound silly but does every vehicle entering these roads then have to turn around or reverse to get out again. Or is it a one-way exit filter?
-
Permalink Reply by JulieB on
-
I suppose the aim is anyone entering the roads are doing so to get to their house or business. I'm guessing it's only the people who enter the roads thinking they can get through to somewhere but then realise there is a camera will have to turn round.
For St Ann's they are putting in some new one way restrictions. I am a bit confused by a diagonal 'barrier' near me and how it works, I need to write to Ann Cunningham to get an explanation/clarification.
-
-
There is already a barrier at St. Annes Road & North Grove because of the school gates very close by.
An opening for pedestrians, cycles and now apparently motorcycles gives access.
The scale of the map is too small to see clearly but it does not seem to show this.
There are side roads into Cornwall Road but as has been said this would lengthen car journeys by some way if one was going Northwards. It would also add to congestion in the roads it affects as vehicles manoeuvre to find a convenient route.
I'm no lover of the motor car but this does seem a little unfair.
-
Permalink Reply by Hugh on
-
As always with social media, it's not quite clear which particular comments people are responding to. So, in case there's been any misunderstanding, let me be clear, I am fully supportive of schemes to control traffic on the Ladder and Woodlands Park and I have been putting significant energies into actively fighting for the Ladder one for almost a quarter of a century. I am actively involved with the Harringay Ladder Healthy Streets campaign around the current project. I am also very supportive of reducing car usage generally, in London and locally.
My own annual car usage is now only about 2,000 miles. I almost always walk when travelling to Hornsey, Crouch End, Wood Green and all points south. I would encourage all who have the time and ability to do the same.
My call for a widening of exemptions is not because I think the car should rule. Nor is it because I drive everywhere. I call for the exemptions because I am not convinced of the value stopping local people using the shortest route. Something like 90%+ of Ladder traffic is through-traffic. Stopping that wold be a huge win. Barring most local people the convenience of using the most direct route doesn't seem like a clear win.
The truth is, all of us engage in, or benefit from, behaviours that have negative consequences for the environment. We do that simply because we make choices for a more enjoyable or more comfortable life. We clearly need to go further and faster in taking action to curb lasting harms to our environment, but there will continue to be decisions which are compromises, balancing immediate life quality with long-term benefit. The extent of low-traffic-neighbourhood (LTNs) exemptions is one of them.
There still appear to be many wrinkles to iron out with LTNs. Press coverage of a scheme in neighbouring Islington this Spring showed that the Highbury LTN had inadvertently increased pollution in the main streets.
An independent audit of the council report found that NO2 pollution in the Highbury scheme had in fact increased by 26 per cent.
The audit also found that the original report had underestimated the increased traffic levels on the “boundary road” of Blackstock Road North.
So, all things considered, for me there isn't a slam-dunk case for the most stringent approach to exemptions. The Ladder isn't just a generic neighbourhood: it is one that's hemmed in by the railway on one side and two busy A-roads on two of the remaining sides. The scheme as currently conceived will block Endymion Road with a bus-gate. So, a scheme without exemptions would mean that car journeys from all but the northern section of the Ladder will need to be routed via one or two, probably very heavily congested A-roads. Now, as my annual mileage will tell you, I rarely drive those routes, but occasionally I do and other residents may have good reason to do it more than I. Given the uncertainty about the impact of exemptions, one way or the other, would it not be worth trialling a wider exemptions policy?
I support the introduction of the scheme whatever, but let's try and make it the right scheme for Harringay: one that achieve its environmental and road safety objectives whilst not creating too many barriers to people's day-to day lives. Show me the evidence of a significant negative impact of a wider exemption policy and I'm all for it.
-
Permalink Reply by Mags on
-
I feel sorry for all the residents of Green Lanes, St Ann’s Road, and West Green Road. Their quality of life will most likely be negatively impacted by increased traffic and pollution. Green Lanes will also most likely return to being a car park and add to the pollution from the restaurants, making my walks less than healthy.
-
-
Hugh, you write above "The scheme as currently conceived will block Endymion Road with a bus-gate." Which scheme is that - I've looked at the HLLS site and can't see a Ladder scheme there. I know Black Boy Lane will get a bus gate...
-
-
Sorry, Gordon, only just seen your reply. I'm referring to the proposal that's been submitted to the council bythe Harringay Ladder Healthy Street group. It's been discussed with Mike Hakata and whist it would be inaccurate to go as far as to say that it's been agreed in principle with the Council, I think it's fair to say that much common ground has been found. You can see an outline here.
-
-
The 30% of London Boroughs who have so far tried LTNs then experienced deleterious effects and rejected them should give us some of the answers.
Where is the consultation by Harringay Ladder Healthy Streets with ALL residents on the Ladder Roads? Their scheme is only concerned with the Ladder Streets on the plan proposed with no regard for the effect on the Gardens and elsewhere - the area is all interconnected.
We are hemmed in by the railway and the blocked Gardens with no through put relief. A councillor put up the road block on Kimberley Gardens/Cleveland Gardens years ago in the 1990s and Warwick Gardens is the same..keeping more traffic on to Green Lanes. No wonder it slows down! It may demonstrate rat running for some here but this is London - not a small country town in Essex!
The Gardens and Ladder streets presumably will have to take the restaurant and shopping parking displaced by the Council's parking ban on Green Lanes (to improve traffic flow).
This makes a Red Route of Green Lanes and we all know how that turned out for Archway Road! It killed business. It displaces parking onto adjoining roads which is already choc a block because people flock to these now mega restaurants. Ten years or so ago when the restaurants and shops were on a smaller scale the volume of traffic was not so bad.
I remember when new parking regs stipulated no parking from 8:30 am - 10:30 pm! Then presumably when the cafes complained it was reduced to it's current 6:30pm status. Now residents will be displaced further when parking bays will be eliminated on Green Lanes for these mega restaurants and stores. Add the Evergreen apartment block residents and it all gets overloaded.
The Wightman Road chicane system instituted post 2012 consultancy (also to make the road greener with planters, trees etc.) has slowed down traffic significantly and reducing parking ...but this parking has gone on to Ladder roads of course.
It seems sensible indeed for roads with schools to have a clearer traffic policy around parking and drop off/pick up. As most accidents happen around school exits these issues need to be addressed and urgently.
If the intention is to rid the Ladder of resident drivers good luck with that one at the next election !
Unless there is a camera checking system for resident drivers (ANPR already has number plate information so should be easy to install) this scheme will be very unpopular and undemocratic. Why penalise residents who already have high council rates and yet are prepared to pay their resident parking permits?
Maybe this is why Ladder residents haven't received invitations to publicly discuss HLHS plan.
If you have health problems and need to use a car you may NOT automatically qualify for a Blue Badge. Blue Badges don't solve every need anyway as they are hard to qualify for.
How do these people cope with the LTN? What about their visitors? If you need someone to remove stuff or deliver stuff...how does this work if RESIDENT'S PARKING PERMITS ARE NO LONGER GOING TO WORK WITH THIS SCHEME ? Putting car reg from carers, family and delivery drivers on a database for an ANPR list would be easy.
Some HLHS participants badly want Wightman Road as a cycle route which is understandable given that during lockdown they got a taste of it but a cycle route should be on Green Lanes where there is space for it. This is not "low hanging fruit" as they stated on the HLHS video..ie easy peasy stuff. The road is narrow and a useful route that takes pressure off Green Lanes traffic flow.
The Haringey Council Ladder traffic plans of 2012 were openly discussed - a consultancy team displayed residents and traders needs and their traffic consultants suggestions with an open shop and meetings for anyone to come and participate in. This new scheme has all been behind closed doors it seems with no publicity. The participants so far are those already involved with community politics but not all of us have the time to do so...so we should all be consulted on policies which directly affect us of this magnitude.
This is not democratic! We are not all fit 30 year olds who can cycle and walk everywhere especially when carrying shopping !
We need a full public meeting in the Autumn which has good prior publicity to all residents (not all use computers!) and OPTIONS that can be seriously and democratically debated.
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
