Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
St Ann's LTN start date - 22 August
I'm not sure whether this has been shared elsewhere on HOL - can't see it in a search but...
We have recently received a note through our front door that the St Ann's Low Traffic Neighbourhood will be implemented on 22 August.
This is a heads-up for anyone living in or driving through the area between West Green Road and St Ann's Road. There will no longer be a direct route between the two major roads unless you are a bus or have a 'X2' exemption pass.
Woodlands Park Road, Black Boy Lane, Cornwall Road and Avenue Road will all be closed to through traffic.
The restriction points will be monitored by CCTV, so no doubt LBH will be issuing lots of PCNs! Drivers beware!
I attach two documents, one a map of the area showing the traffic cells as they will be after implementation, and the other the supporting document.
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic
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LTN map.pdf, 834 KB -
LTN Doc.pdf, 1.1 MB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Andrew on
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I agree. It's been transformational for many roads in St Ann's. I'm fully aware of the opposition from many, and the poor and rushed implementation, but I am convinced things will settle down (as they are already) and we'll all wonder what the fuss was about. As to whether residents generally should be given an exemption, that's a separate debate.
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Maddy — I’m sure Conway Road was delightful today, but, frankly, you could probably have hosted a street party there any time in the last 30 years. Even pre-pandemic, the greatest danger to pedestrians in this part of St Ann’s was from learner drivers practising three-point turns or reversing round corners and shoals of children learning cycling skills on almost empty streets; walking down the centre of the road would hardly have been more dangerous than a stroll in Chestnuts Park.
The LTN is a sledgehammer to crack a nut: three roads in the ward were busy, but the vast majority — including Conway, Clarendon, Cranleigh and Glenwood, for example — had no traffic problems at all. The council offered no other solutions apart from dividing the ward in half with (virtual) barriers, at least partly because that was the only policy that would get them money from the GLA. By all accounts, the outcome so far has been exactly as predicted, with traffic queues and log-jams on the unfortunately designated “boundary” roads. Great if you live on already-quiet Conway; possibly not half as great in Harringay Road or if you’re on a 41 on West Green Road trying to get to work or school.
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How would you have solved the problem in those three roads (I assumed Woodlands Park Rd, Black Boy Lane and Avenue Road)? Assuming you are Haringey council so can't introduce anything too sweeping like road charging or whatever.
Throughout the whole process there's a lot of "this is the wrong solution" but not much of what other realistic solutions are.
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AndrewAW1 — My contention has always been that the real problems with Harringay traffic are caused by Green Lanes, and that other congestion flows from it. Very early in this thread I itemised steps I’d suggest to deal with GL, and, as far as I know, that post is still there if you want to look. Crashmap stats also show that GL and WG Road are far and away more dangerous than any road inside the St Ann’s LTN, so I question the wisdom of forcing yet more traffic to use them. I think the problematic roads could have been dealt with through rush-hour filtering and permanent chicanes, for instance, but the fundamental problem — “through traffic” that’s trying to get somewhere — needs GL to be sorted first.
Overall, it’s all very well lecturing people about not using cars, but there have to be viable alternatives in place first — eg including much better buses (something TfL is being forced to make worse), bus priority in GL and traffic restrictions that limit its use as a major arterial route through a residential area. Current LTN thinking simply shifts the problems from one patch of the borough to another, as Bounds Green residents discovered when Enfield created an LTN just across the borough boundary. This doesn’t solve the problem.
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I've had a quick look and found this from you re: Green Lanes:
Sort out Green Lanes: completely remove or severly reduce all parking from the Arena to the Salisbury and install a northbound bus lane; restrict loading and deliveries to specific bays at specific times — and enforce it; work with TfL/DfT to limit or prevent traffic turning to/from the North Circular at morning and evening peaks (preserving north/south access to/from Palmer’s Green only at these times).
They are fine ideas but apart from the limiting the traffic from the North Circular, which isn't something Haringey can realistically do (unless you're suggesting a full borough LTN), they aren't going to have much impact on the traffic in the area.
If you filtered Black Boy Lane, etc at rush hour what would stop the traffic going round those filters by just cutting up the next residential street? As for chicanes, they are horrible for cyclists.
I fully agree that it would be nice for the problem to be solved on a large scale but there is no real suggestion that this is going to happen due to conflicting political viewpoints and lack of budget. Just waiting and hoping that everything will eventually get sorted out doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
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I also think the change has been very good. The constant traffic on Cornwall and blackboy lane is almost gone.
I got in my car last week to go to the supermarket-saisburys on green lanes. After sitting in traffic for ages on west green road ( I would normally have gone in st Anne’s road) I turned around, went home frustrated. But that’s the whole point!!!!
I reevaluated how I should do my shopping and will not use the car now. Yes some car journeys are necessary but I guarantee the 41 bus would be very quick if ALL but necessary car journeys stopped.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Or you go at different times when the roads are less jammed? The big stores are open to 10pm.
Idling traffic is the most polluting, sailing along at 30mph is the most efficient use of petrol. (Except the 20mph limit stops this)
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I see this claim a lot (that 30mph is more efficient than 20mph) but it's always been questionable when you're looking at an urban environment with lots of accelerating and decelerating (and obviously ignoring the other negatives that come with the 30mph limit).
Of course, with the increase in hybrids and EVs the "fact" doesn't hold true for those at all.
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Piolabar — Obviously I don’t know your personal circumstances, but I wonder if you’d have abandoned your Sainsbury’s trip if it was the weekly shop for a family of four (perhaps it was)? Not easy carryingbthat many bags on a 41!
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All buses on West Green Road & Green Lanes in bumper to bumper traffic!
Ridiculous! I’m trying to get to work here !
Oh well! The biking fraternity is much happier.
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It’s awful for people living on Green Lanes & West Green Road. It’s so much more dangerous trying to cross the roads & the pollution levels have rocketed, you can smell the fumes again. I wish some consideration had been given to residents on these boundary roads. I don’t think I’ve seen any comments on here from people living on these roads?
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