Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
St Ann's LTN start date - 22 August
I'm not sure whether this has been shared elsewhere on HOL - can't see it in a search but...
We have recently received a note through our front door that the St Ann's Low Traffic Neighbourhood will be implemented on 22 August.
This is a heads-up for anyone living in or driving through the area between West Green Road and St Ann's Road. There will no longer be a direct route between the two major roads unless you are a bus or have a 'X2' exemption pass.
Woodlands Park Road, Black Boy Lane, Cornwall Road and Avenue Road will all be closed to through traffic.
The restriction points will be monitored by CCTV, so no doubt LBH will be issuing lots of PCNs! Drivers beware!
I attach two documents, one a map of the area showing the traffic cells as they will be after implementation, and the other the supporting document.
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic
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LTN map.pdf, 834 KB -
LTN Doc.pdf, 1.1 MB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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Residents can still access and park in the LTN.
As for Green Lanes parking, there is a large car park at the Arena that can be used. I don't think it's necessary for anyone to park on Green Lanes itself. If private motor traffic is reduced then access by public transport (buses) will be much easier. The area is also well served by two Underground and two Overground stations.
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Permalink Reply by Barbara on
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Having lived in this area for many years I do know about the travel and parking options. Sadly visitors just don't use these parking areas you describe. The Arena parking is monitored with a 2hr slot per car thereafter a fine. If you're attending a night out with your friends at a restaurant it might last much longer! Not sure about Homebase parking but these car parks are perceived as belonging to the Arena shopping area. It would be gridlock soon enough there! Sure buses are good and that's clear! People's perceptions to be changed ?...coming from outside as surely many people travel to GL knowing it's the "Turkish restaurant quarter" it's unlikely.
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I wonder how come in the whole of the Netherlands people's first preerence sis usually to cycle or walk before using their cars. even the elderly and family with kids and shoppers go for bikes first. Why there and not here whe London is dense too.
Set is our ways despite the overwhelming evidence that we just cannot continue this way with climate change and the cost of petrol...
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Harringay Ladder Healthy Streets is small group of residents. I can assure you that they are as aware of the possible knocks-ons to other areas as they are if being affected the their way round. (But since all roads east are alreadt protectd by LTNs, the knock-ons won't be to the Gardens or anywhere else in Harringay)
Since they are just a resident group at acting at the start of a long process they don't have the statutory or moral obligation to consult beyond the area they represent. The consultative role is one for the council. The group has been widely advertised on the Ladder, online, and by drops throuhgh every letterbox. Any resident is welcome and all have been invited to every meeting. I don't think there is any cause to reproach them.
I attend all the wide HLHS meetings and take a position in defence of keeping ANPR on the table. It's not popular within the group, but I think it should be on the table. You should join the group, Barbara.
The public consultation by the Council will start soon.
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Hugh I joined HLHS last week and was welcomed. The video I watched only seemed to have Mike Hakata, the HLHS Chair, yourself, a couple living on Endymion Rd and a cyclist. I thought they didn't have enough representation if this was a dissemination meeting of the LTN plans. I did receive an introductory flyer from HLHS months ago with little information it's true but nothing about LTN - hence my concern.
ANPR seems the easiest way around it for residents as we are not all capable of walking and carrying stuff and that's not just older people...!
What if the Council changes parking rules on the Ladder to accommodate the spill over of Green Lanes parking - when the restaurant owners and traders realise the effect of a Red Route and complain to the Council ?
To be honest I was only alerted to it by a neighbour recently who is on a WhatsApp street group that's in total rebellion. I do realise parents concerns about road safety and kids coming out of school etc. It's going to be important to sort that out and I'm surprised it hasn't been looked at before by the Council.
Our last Traffic Survey was democratic and had nothing imposed from the top. Of course the consultancy team suggested plans but we were involved properly.
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It's great that you're involved again, Barbara. On top of my years of persuading Cllr Canver to act on Hewitt traffic, I counted your forceful face-to-face interaction with her as being significant in helping her see the light. As you know, I wasn't always comfortable about the chosen solution, but I very much welcomed its positive impact on our street.
You're probably right about the representativeness of the HLHS. Through natural self-selection, a high proportion of people in the group seem to share similar views on solving our hyperlocal traffic issue (though I might be misinterpreting things). As you might expect, there seems to be an over-representation of what we might call the cycling lobby, whose viewpoint is very close to Mike Hakata's
Having said that, the group do seem genuinely open to all people and views. I've never felt shut-down by Jim when defending the APNR option. At first the idea was dismissed by some as fanciful or too expensive. It now appears that APNR cameras are a default part of Haringey LTN schemes. However, Haringey's use of them allows minimal exemptions for passing through.
I think widening exemptions will be a tough nut to crack, because the administration sees reducing all resident car use as a behaviour change initiative to which they are very attached. Minimal exemptions are part and parcel of it. Because the issue concerns reducing local trips by car beyond the boundaries of an LTN area, it extends beyond what the residents within a particular area want because. Nonetheless, what I'd like to see is some data to evidence the impact of wider exepmtions. Clearly it will have some impact on desired outcomes, but how much?
Residents must participate in the thinking on this scheme at all stages. Things can quickly get fixed in people's minds. So, join in early before the scheme gets too fixed to change.
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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I encountered that council mindset in the workshops I attended for disabled people and carers. One person from the council seemed alarmed at the suggestions for more wide ranging exemptions than just Blue Badge holders. He seemed keen to keep it much tighter. Thankfully the other council people there listened and seemed to understand that peoples needs differ and are usually complex.
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Then it's much more serious than I at first thought Hugh !
Sarah above says "Residents can still access and park in the LTN." Then this isn't true?
You'll be surprised at the numbers against this scheme through WhatsApp!
IF the Council are seriously using the APNR tech then it won't have a full revolt! It's reassuring that our councillors are listening to the people who live here.
This issue certainly needs to be opened out in the right way. Cheaper than a JR !
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Barbara - As I understand it, nothing has changed in St Ann’s LTN for residents’ parking (the CPZ is unchanged), but crossing the border between the two bits the ward has been divided into depends on having a special permit that grants exemption from fines. Judging by the cars I saw today coming to a sudden halt and then doing three-point turns in the middle of Woodlands Park Road this is not yet well-understood by local residents whose journeys have been deliberately made more difficult by a council where — as Hugh put it above — the main instigator’s views “align with the cycling lobby”. The council’s info stressed that vehicle access to all addresses is maintained, it’s just much more difficult — which is the aim of the exercise.
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Whilst nothing is decided yet, no that won't happen. As I understand it, the effect is likrly to be pretty mucvh identical to when the bridge was closed, excprt you won't have access to Tolington Park Road, direct from Harringay. Parking will be unaffected by the LTN itself, but they are eying up rung road spaces for shopper parking. For my money, since recent surveys showed that many rung roads are already at parking capacity, I'd convert the majority of the current pay-to-park spaces at the bottom of rung roads to disabled spaces and put the majority of shop visitor parking on to the Gardens cross streets, which seem to be largely empty. They're already available for pay-to-park, but not used because the walk is 'too far' for our delicate shopper visitors.
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Hugh — Please could you consider rethinking what you’ve just said: “I’d…. put the majority of shop visitor parking on to the Gardens cross streets, which seem to be largely empty…”. Isn’t this precisely the problem with the whole traffic management/LTN debate? Nobody wants traffic or parking in their street, just in somebody else’s! Maybe the Gardens residents quite like having empty streets in their patch? Wouldn’t you?
Ladder residents think they got a raw deal when the Gardens were closed — yes, they did — but this goes to the nub of the dilemma: where does the traffic go when an area becomes an LTN? If it’s Enfield, of course, the answer’s Bounds Green (in Haringey); job done!
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Don, at least the comment has the virtue of having been made in plain sight, rather than in a meeting between a lobby group and local councillor.
How quickly this beggar thy neighbour line was nibbled on is illustrated below. I wonder if it would ever have been cast were the the Gardens RA's indefatigable founder Andy still on watch.
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