Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
St Ann's LTN start date - 22 August
I'm not sure whether this has been shared elsewhere on HOL - can't see it in a search but...
We have recently received a note through our front door that the St Ann's Low Traffic Neighbourhood will be implemented on 22 August.
This is a heads-up for anyone living in or driving through the area between West Green Road and St Ann's Road. There will no longer be a direct route between the two major roads unless you are a bus or have a 'X2' exemption pass.
Woodlands Park Road, Black Boy Lane, Cornwall Road and Avenue Road will all be closed to through traffic.
The restriction points will be monitored by CCTV, so no doubt LBH will be issuing lots of PCNs! Drivers beware!
I attach two documents, one a map of the area showing the traffic cells as they will be after implementation, and the other the supporting document.
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic
- Attachments:
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LTN map.pdf, 834 KB -
LTN Doc.pdf, 1.1 MB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I'm not sure I see the hypocrisy. The primary aim stated by Haringey Council is to reduce through traffic. They also want to increase cycling and walking. Reducing through traffic doesn't have to mean stopping all movements through a zone by residents. It would be hypocritical to want minimal restrictions within a zone and then expect unfettered access through other LTNs and restricted traffic zones. I don't. Equally, a case could be made for it to be considered hypocritical to support LTNs, then pile on high mileage elsewhere. I don't.
My mileage is about 25.k per year. Pretty much all journeys within the borough and to all points south are by foot or public transport. Exceptions are things like trips carrying heavy items to the recycling centre.
But this is all subjective. What I'm looking for is objective evidence on the effect of restricting resident's movements within what are pretty small zones. If the same evidence regarding health, safety and quality of life is there as that which supports the restrictions on through-traffic, then I'd be fully supportive.
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Permalink Reply by Geoff Amabilino on
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Sarah, I only did it as a test!
But I do know people that will drive 300yds to go shopping....
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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I'm not even in an LTN and I was woken by a bin lorry at 3 and again at 6:30. I might have forgiven them if either had been here to clear my recycling - I've been waiting since Thursday!
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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These are our residential collection lorries, literally, moonlighting as commercial collection lorries. They should not legally have the same access but a blind eye is turned.
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Permalink Reply by PeterPiper on
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Isn't walking, and cycling with the associated health benefits part of the rationale for LTNs, alongside prohibiting rat-running? We are well served by public transport hereabouts, so getting around shouldn't be too onerous, and someone else is responsible for the driving whilst there are no parking charges at the destination.
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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That people in this thread are still debating and questioning what they basis for the introduction of LTNs is, should really be of some concern.
The stated justifications are
1) reduce pollution, especially NO2 and particulate matter, which can affect lung function and breathing, worsening respiratory diseases including asthma in children and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) in adults
Th council's measurements of NO2 show that acceptable levels were not breached in either of the two sites within the St Ann's LTN over the 5 years up to and including 2020. It's own evidence shows that peak NO2 accumulated along boundary roads and dissipates to very low levels in the residential roads now closed off. So tough luck for those on the boundary roads.
The council doesn't not even measure P10 or P2.5 particulate matter in the borough (it has one measurement station recently installed in Wood Green). It has no baseline, and no prospect of evaluating change.
2) improve health outcomes related to inactivity;
No meaningful measurement or assessment of what this means has been presented and will not/can not be monitored.
3) reduce motor traffic collisions;
Zero traffic will certainly reduce traffic related collisions in the same way that staying indoors forever would help reduce Covid. The Council's own data show how small of an issue this currently is within the LTN and no assessment of more obvious solutions such as improved maintenance/installation of crossings and enforcement of speed restrictions has been made.
4) reduce carbon emissions in our attempt to avoid catastrophic climate change and finally
Again, this is almost meaningless in its lack of specifics.
5) reclaim neighbourhood streets for pedestrians and communities and to make safe
welcoming, inclusive spaces for all residents.Here we have to assume that those on GL, WGR and St Ann's Road are not to be included in this 'inclusivity'
That's it though. No mention of subjectively defined rat-running or through traffic. If we can't measure or quantify the baseline, there can be no trial. No experiment. No basis for success or failure other than a poll of residents. But the LTNs are in and they won't be removed for a long time. We need to accept. But we also need to accept the basis on which these changes have been made.
It's akin to telling kids they can decide on their own sex and then just plowing ahead and making optical or physical changes to try to effect that. Evidence, even logic is missing in both examples.
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Will Wightman Rd, a residential street, ever be a member of an LTN? If not, why not? The first LTNs are definitely for the more affluent areas.
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While people in the discussion still have a sense of ownership over 'their' street or LTN, yet seem unwilling to afford others the same sense of ownership, it will always be a shout the loudest outcome.
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I’m not sure why people shouldn’t have a sense of ownership over streets - particularly if others are speeding down them without regard for the fact that they are residential or that local children use them.
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I'm not sure many would claim that Broadwater Farm is more affluent than Wightman Rd.
If you use the index of multiple deprivation as a measure it's very clear that it's not the more affluent areas.
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The Harringay Ladder Project, as our LTN is being officially referred to, will include Green Lanes and Turnpike Lane, as well as Wightman and the rung roads. In the last zoom with Mike Hakata, I sought and received his reassurance that the inclusion of these two A roads wouldn't jeopardise the fate of Wightman. So, let's see (and stay involved through the process to input out own thoughts).
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Chris, the outcomes you’ve reproduced in your response are pretty much standard for all LTNs, but the ways of achieving them differ. The identification of through-traffic as the primary (but not the only) target in achieving those outcomes has been given on several occasions by Mike Hakata in Zoom meetings. I think all have been recorded and should be accessible as a matter of public record.
I'm not sure that I've experienced this discussion as a debate over the desirability of LTNs nor about the basis of their being introduced. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I thought there seems to be broad agreement that they're a good thing and the outcomes they're designed to achieve are desirable. What I have witnessed, and been a part of, is a discussion about some fine-tune elements of the way they're introduced.
With respect to the Ladder, the study done during the bridge closure identified the vast majority of traffic using the Ladder roads as through-traffic. That's why Mike is targeting it. Deal with it and you've dealt with the the vast majority of the traffic. I remember that in the first Ladder traffic zoom I attended with Mike, he referred to neighbouring boroughs becoming increasingly unwelcoming to through-traffic and, he said, when motorists got to the the Haringey boundary, they all but saw a sign welcoming rat-runnners to travel through the borough. He said that he was determined to change that.
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