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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

I’m sure this has been discussed on here before, but I have reached a point of major frustration and am planning to write to the councillors about this issue

Harringay’s rubbish situation is just out of hand and I want to know what the councillors are going to do about this

I’m sure I can’t be alone in wondering what my council tax is going on when i’m constantly surrounded by filth

I wonder if my words to the councillors would have more meaning if I had the backing of other local residents. Or has someone already done this and got nowhere?

Keen to hear if anyone has already raised this issue with anyone

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We do quite a few litter picks in Russell Park that you might want to join -- where residents pick up rubbish in the park and Veolia picks up the bags we fill. Dates are announced on Noel Park net. I'll let the organisers know that it's probably a good idea to post it here, too. 

We have also turned a flytip area along Westbury into the Westbury nature preserve - again resident-led. 

The Council doesn't litter, Veolia doesn't fly tip. Don't blame them.

It's a proportion of the people who live in this area who litter and fly tip; perhaps a larger proportion than in Crouch End and Muswell Hill.

It IS the people - that's my point too. The littering in Finsbury Park is terrible. It's such a shame when we all want to enjoy the parks in the Summer. I see workers clearing it in the morning only for it to be a mess again the next day, despite plenty of bins around! But there are a lot of people who don't care so unless there is much greater enforcement I can't see anything changing sadly. It's just basic civic mindedness that some people blatantly ignore -- because they know they can!

Of course you’re right John, it’s the dumpers who cause the problem.  But the east side of the borough has problems that exacerbate the issue, the high churn of short let multiple occupation properties being one of them.  If you walk through Crouch End and Muswell Hill you don’t see many 3 bed terraced houses with 6 or more door bells on them.  A walk down just my street sees lots of them.  That leads to inadequate waste storage (or any storage) for the people who live in them, overflowing bins serving a few dozen people and the endless dumpling a cheap mattresses, rugs and kitchenalia at the conclusion of a tenancy.  

The nature of the commercial offer on GL also is different with the number of restaurants attracting visitors from all over London (and the world if you check a few on Trip Advisor).  

There needs to be recognition that this is going to happen and steps taken to deal,with it.  For instance, Westminster know that the streets of Soho will be a tip at the end of the day so every night they send in a deep cleaning squad to clear and wash them down.  Perhaps Haringey could look at charging a variable business rate on GL to fund the cleaning of the mess caused by the customers of businesses who profit from them handsomely but cause these issues.

The street I stay on when I go to Paris has a recognised area where large items can be disposed of and it is collected every day at precisely the same time so there is certainty that it won’t mount up and become a problem.

Haringey!s response to litter and grime needs to fit each area rather than each area fitting a single response.

Indeed. This is precisely the issue

And the planning departments just keep allowing more and more conversions into multiple use properties without ensuring the facilities are there to cater for this

This also leads to overcrowding for commuters on buses and at Turnpike Lane station

I am going to write to the councillors again. I appreciate this has been done previously but it can’t harm. I see it just getting worse, not better

yes but the Corbyinista bullies just ousted all the sensible people in the council so nothing will change for a few years yet. if at all

How about putting a petition together? I'm sure we'd get a good number of signatures on the ladder and surrounding streets. Surely that will put more pressure on them? Or how about going to metro or the Evening Standard to get them to write an article about the shit heap that Green Lanes has become?

This. Thank you.

Like most complex problems there are a number of actors and factors that combine to create the mess we see today. Harringay's revolting garbage crisis is exacerbated by: 

1) residents who are unaware (or don't care) that it is dirty, socially backward and illegal to cast filth into the streets;

2) unhygienic food retail outlets who are reluctant to pay business waste collection fees and who view fixed waste collection times as state sponsored opression;

3) rapacious landlords and seedy property agencies who rent out overcrowded hovels that lack adequate waste disposal facilities;

4) councillors and political leaders who largely represent the interests of these three groups, are reluctant to upset them and who consequently avoid applying sufficient pressure on Haringey Council to step up enforcement;

5) an ineffectual local authority (Haringey Council) that creates an enabling environment for dumping by failing to adequately crack down on residents, businesses and landlords who dump;

6) a lack of Haringey Council action aimed at preventing villainous property speculators from converting 3 bedroom houses into 32 bedroom HMOs (Houses of Multiple Occupation);

7) a lack of Haringey Council action aimed at cracking down on scummy absent landlords who profit from running the area down by renting out HMOs that constantly eject building waste, soiled mattresses, cheap furniture and dirty clothes into the street;

8) a Haringey Council housing team that encourages seedy landlords to turn more and more property over to rental use because of a lack of social housing; 

9) a demoralised Haringey Council enforcement team who seem to need more evidence to take action against dumpers than the police need to successfully prosecute a serial killer.   

The problem is one of behaviours, a lack of political pressure on the part of councillors, incompetence on the part of Haringey Council and successive Conservative, New Labour and Tory/Lib Dem national governments who have eroded social housing stocks.

What to do? Haringey Council and our esteemed councillors need to tackle the root causes of dumping rather than simply clearing up after the multitude of miscreants who dump. 

1) There is a need for a large scale and continuous behaviour change campaign aimed at eradicating socially backward behaviours. Similar campaigns underway in countries where there is poor sanitation, poor hygiene and people defecating in the streets operate on the basis of shame. There is an attempt to socially stigmatise filthy behaviours and thereby embarrass the culprits into changing their unclean ways. Something like this is required in Haringey where too many people stand idly by whilst repugnant slobs wearing ill fitting grey flannel jogging pants and dressing gowns at 14:30 in the afternoon foul the footways with bags of used nappies.

2) Haringey Council need to implement a zero tolerance enforcement campaign in dumping hotspots like Turnpike Lane. If you stand on this road you will see the same individuals repeatedly dumping household and business waste on the street every day. These people need to be taken to court and fined £1,000 for a first offence and £32,000 for a second offence. If they can't pay they should be imprisoned or sentenced to community service street cleaning. 

3) Haringey Council need to crack down on HMO landlords banning any future HMOs (Haringey has one of the highest numbers of HMOs in the country) and withdrawing licences from any HMO landlords whose tenants are implicated in dumping or leaving waste in the street outside collection times. 

4) Haringey Council need to serve environmental protection orders (waste ASBOs) on any unhygienic local business breaking waste disposal regulations.

5) Haringey Council need to crush any vehicle implicated in dumping and push for the owner to be sentenced in a crown court rather than magistrates courts that tend to apply grossly inadequate penalties.

6) Catherine West and David Lammy need to push for changes to national legislation that enable the council to adequately tackle this issue. As far as I have seen, Catherine West has done absolutely nothing whatsoever about the problem despite the fact that Haringey wasted £3 million cleaning up after dumpers in one year. 

7) We the public need to apply more pressure to Haringey Council and our councillors. They are not doing anywhere near enough to address the problem. The reason that Donald Trump can get away with treason is because his supporters don't care if he makes deals with authoritarian dictators. The reason that our councillors and political leadership can get away with doing too little to tackle dumping is because we, the residents of this area do not apply sufficient pressure on them.

They have to do more and we have to make them do more.

Unless this happens the only way dumping will stop is when the rubbish is piled so high that it starts to interfere with the SKY SPORTS satellite dish reception of the households dumping rubbish. We can't wait until this point. 

This is a 100% excellent post! Reads like an agenda to be taken to a meeting with the council. You have my backing.

yes, you are spot on here

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