Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Register for the Webinar to see the Council's plans for Harringay
As part of its new local planning process, the council is running a series of webinar for the borough's neighbourhoods. Harringay's is being run along with the one for Wood Green. (Since the Council still can't bring themselves to use our proper neighbourhood name, its called the Wood Green and Green Lanes event.
The plan includes the demolition of the Arena Shops and Jewson on Wightman Road and their replacement with flats - probably towers of some sort. There's no surprises there since these areas were zoned for just this sort of development some years ago.
In my experience. once a plan has reached this stage, it's unlikely to change unless there's a very organised and effective expression of will for it to be so,
You can sign up to attend virtually, here.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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The plan includes the demolition of the Arena Shops and Jewson on Wightman Road
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The buildings on these sites are unlovely with swathes of land given to parking for car-owners, but there are other considerations.
The council has a responsibility toward maintaining or fostering employment, but too often this takes a back-seat to new-build. And the council's cosy relations with a small number of developers (I wonder which one will have the inside track here, in a similar way that one big developer seemed always to have the inside-track for the unlamented HDV).
As well as the possible net-loss of employment in the council's Site Allocation, there may also be a loss of services for local people.
If building supplies merchant Jewson's were lost, then builders and those with DIY ability would have to drive further afield to buy tools and materials. Despite the occasional chat and PR-push, Haringey Council has never been really serious to encourage walking and cycling. Driven by developers and the lust for more Council Tax, parts of the Borough are gradually turning into a dormitory monoculture.
We see this pattern emerging outside the Tottenham Hale transport hub, where the council has enabled intensive development around a big intersection … above some of the most air-polluted roads in the UK. Hardly ideal for raising a family with young children with growing lungs.
Some years ago, Green Lanes was ranked one of the five most polluted roads in Haringey Borough, along with West Green Road, Seven Sisters Road, Tottenham High Road and Muswell Hill Broadway.
If there were joined-up thinking in the council, then several of these aspects could be mitigated. However, there is little sign of such thinking at Haringey Council.
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Permalink Reply by AndrewAW1 on
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To be fair the Green Lanes region they've defined is broader than Harringay. It's including a fair bit of West Green and St Anne's including the new development there (although I'm also not keen on the Green Lanes descriptor but I'm not sure what would be better).
Lots of information and consultations on the website https://haringeynewlocalplan.commonplace.is/
The neighbourhood plans are worth a flick through, it feels like the plan is to build new housing on any bit of land they can see. I can't see all of it happening but the Arena in particular looks like a prime site. The intention is to keep a supermarket and retail on the Green Lanes fronted part and residential behind it sounds like, which could be an improvement if done well.
They've made it annoyingly difficult to link to, it's the Part2_NeighbourhoodPolicies.pdf here
https://haringeynewlocalplan.commonplace.is/proposals/key-documents...
All the various stuff is here
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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What’s there is 90% Harringay, but focusing on the edges is not the point for me. Precise neighbourhood boundaries are almost always unclear: recognising the centre of a neighbourhood area isn't and should never be.
It wouldn’t matter to the Council if everyone agreed that 100% of the area included is Harringay. The council will never use the Harringay name to describe anything other than Harringay ward. Nilgun Canver told me about a decade ago that Harringay doesn’t exist. That seems to be very much the council‘s attitude. This is a longer story than the last few years, however. It goes back to the end of the 19th century and Hornsey Council.
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Permalink Reply by Dick Harris
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Wood Green and Green Lanes Draft Local Plan Webinar
I listened to this webinar yesterday (18th November). For the purposes of the plan, the area on both sides of the A105 from the Civic Centre to the top end of Finsbury Park had been divided into two localities. North of Turnpike Lane the locality was labelled “Wood Green” and south of Turnpike Lane it was labelled “Green Lanes”.
Great emphasis was put on “placemaking” but the draft did not deal with any aspect of the road network. In my view, this lack of joined up thinking means the draft plan has very limited value, especially for residents of the Harringay ladder.
The term placemaking, which was unfamiliar to me, seems to be a set of concepts that emerged in the 1960s (in USA) and have more recently been increasingly taken up by activists and professionals. The scope of placemaking has become so broad that practically any action could be fitted into it but, within the area concerned, its central tenet must be to advance the experience of pedestrians over all other considerations (especially cars).
Wood Green locality
This part of the draft plan is inspired by a highly speculative idea in the 2021 London Plan that identifies Wood Green as one of twelve future “Metropolitan town centres”. The Wood Green centre would be the only one between others at Harrow and Ilford. I say it is speculative because the nomination of Wood Green is entirely contingent upon the building of Cross Rail 2 North (which even if it happens at all, may not actually pass through Wood Green).
Some ambitious (perhaps grandiose) ideas are advance by Haringey planners to improve the whole area and to welcome visitors to a wonderfully enhanced town centre serving a large section of North London. In my view, the acceptance of the London Plan idea is premature and seems to have inspired a wholly disproportionate emphasis on Wood Green in stark contrast to what is foreseen for Green Lanes. Moreover, even with the proposed Cross Rail 2, promoting Wood Green as a commercial centre for all of North London would suck in additional road traffic from all directions (eg Barnet, Enfield and Waltham Forest) especially from parts not served well by public transport.
Moreover, if all this “placemaking” is to be effective, presumably very little road traffic would then be permitted/needed on the Wood Green High Road itself which runs smack through the middle of the place concerned. Is it to become pedestrianised? If so, it could solve our traffic problems.
Harringay Green Lanes locality
The draft plan for this area contains much less. One excellent item relates to the warehouse district which is recognised for what it already is and would be supported. Another reference is to recognise that Jewson’s yard could become residential. This too, would be a clear benefit because it would eliminate most of the heavy vehicles using Wightman and Burgoyne Roads. Oddly, this key advantage was not mentioned – more evidence of the joined-up thinking problem.
Another oddity is the suggestion that the whole of the Arena retail park (ie Sainsburys and all the other businesses) could be redeveloped as multiple use (ie residential and commercial). Again, no mention of the obvious objective of sorting out the dreadful adjoining road junctions.
Although the draft plan for our area is commendably brief, in my view it is completely lacking in any ambition to deal with our biggest, most enduring and worsening problem: road traffic. The London Plan talks of protecting “out-of-centre high streets as local parades or business areas and develop appropriate policies to support and enhance the role of these high streets”. Moreover, Harringay Green Lanes is marked on the London Plan Character map as “historic”. Going as far as possible to recreate Green Lanes’ original, pre-1914 condition ought to be possible under this rubric.
It is perhaps worth pointing out that until about 1938, there were two tram lines in Green Lanes. They were positioned in the middle of the carriageway so, in effect, there used to be priority lanes for public transport. Other vehicles could use the same space but obviously could not be parked there in any circumstances. Other vehicles could stop by the kerbs for deliveries etc. Passengers for trams would have to wait on the pavements (and it would be a hanging offence for a moving vehicle to pass inside a stationary tram).
It sounds to me that this situation what we need to replicate. Two priority bus lanes in the middle of the road. Two-wheel traffic between the bus lanes and the kerbs. Some spots where delivery vehicles could make short stops. No other vehicles allowed between the bus lanes and the kerbs. Absolute priority for pedestrians moving to or from buses. Very heavy deterrence against through traffic.
If TFL is contemplating such enormous projects as Cross Rail 2, they might do better to start by putting a Piccadilly Line station under Green Lanes between Colina Road and the Salisbury. That could take out some of the buses.
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This is my take on the webinar. Apologies for any misreadings/mistakes on my part. If anyone wishes to comment on the draft local plans, consultation is open at the following web-address https://haringeynewlocalplan.commonplace.is/ or by e-mailing newlocalplan@haringey.gov.uk
I am glad to say that the full draft local plan does have a sixteen-page chapter called Sustainable travel. This chapter is available as a pdf at https://haringeynewlocalplan.commonplace.is/proposals/sustainable-t...
and it too is open for consultation. I have not studied it closely but it clearly contains many provisions that could be used to justify aims that have been expressed in the still growing thread following the Harringay Traffic meeting Outcome. I shall add this point to that thread.
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