Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Refuse Hell
Dear Community,
Is anyone else still experiencing nightmares with Haringey's new refuse/recycling collection over one year on? Here on Milton Avenue and the surrounding roads we are still left with excessive, large, wheelie bins on the public footpaths that are overflowing on a weekly basis and being ripped open by vermin. Dealing with Haringey seems to go in one ear and straight out the other. Our local councillors have been very supportive but is seems the real culprit is elected member Cllr Nilgun Canver who as cabinet member for Environment is where the buck stops. Cllr Canver has shown us no support what so ever and has no empathy for our plight much to our dismay. Please let me know if you are dealing with similar issues. I attach a photograph showing crows ripping open bags as an example of our problems.
Tags for Forum Posts: Veolia, bins, refuse, rubbish collection, wheelie
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20130628_101033.jpg, 1.8 MB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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As I recall, Christopher, when the Environment Scrutiny Panel visited these streets to see the problem first hand - at the request of your councillor Rachel Allison - one difficulty at the time was that residents were not in agreement on the best solution. (I was on that panel visit.) People viewing your photo can see the physical problem: steps; garden flats; gates; sub-divided properties each generating their own waste. No obvious places to store waste near the front of the houses. (The problem is clearer still with Google Street View.)
Was there subsequent agreement on the best method? Was this tried and if so why isn't it working? Are your three ward councillors putting forward a new proposal to Nilgun Canver agreed by the majority of residents?
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By the way you, are right about too much power being given to a single "cabinet" member. But actually, the buck stops with Cllr Claire Kober the Council Leader who reappointed Cllr Canver to the job of "cabinet" councillor for the Environment. There's no election to the cabinet posts. Just concentration of power and patronage in one person.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Riley on
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Dear Alan,
The Scrutiny Panel were very supportive of our concerns. The only solution Haringey has offered has been the status quo, no alternatives have ever been mentioned with possibly the exception of more bins! The problem we have is no storage facilities for the bins and a majority of the properties are homes of multiple occupancy (HMOs) with potential waste from 8 people per property which is a lot!
Christopher
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Sorry, Christopher, I tidied-up my comment and added a bit, a few minutes after posting it. You may want to comment again.
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Still no alternative solutions were offered though. Residents were not in disagreement to the situation. Haringey carried out a survey with strongly led questions which prompted them to claim a difference of opinion. Haringey has been picking and choosing at every stage the best outcome for them! We should be working together but it has turned into a battle of wills with Cllr Canver refusing to budge at every point.
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From when we visited, my impression is that the physical layout in the streets meant there was no obvious alternative to the status quo. My recollection is also that you agreed that your fellow residents held divergent views. (Apologies if I've got that wrong.)
The Scrutiny Panel didn't see the consultation survey, so I can't comment on whether or not the Council asked "Leading" questions. But it seemed that your ward councillors had met with residents and worked hard to find a generally agreed solution. Would it be unfair to say that there simply wasn't one? (This is no criticism of Rachel Allison and Bob Hare; who also came to Scrutiny Panel meeting.)
At least in my own observation, neither Claire Kober nor Nilgun Canver are problem solvers. Again from what I've seen over the years, neither of them have much curiosity, or capacity or disposition to learn. On the other hand, would you have wanted them to instruct Council Waste management staff and Veolia to vary the standard service and impose a solution which the majority of residents didn't approve?
So how about the residents - with the Highgate ward councillors - having further discussion and maybe doing their own survey; trying to come up with a better solution?
(Totenham Hale ward councillor)
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I understod that the Scrutiny Panel had ten recommendations to the Council and one of these was to return to weekly collections in exceptional circumstances such as Milton Avenue, which was declined by the Council meeting. We did conduct our own survey of residents which showed an overwhelming preference to weekly waste collections to resolve the overflowing waste and reduce the number and size of bins. Haringey also turned a blind eye to this, picking and choosing as I said before!
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Yes there were ten recommendations. If people are interested, they are set out in the Overview & Scrutiny Committee Minutes on 22 October 2012. The recommendations are on page 11 of the PDF file. (The page is numbered as 9.)
This report also has photos showing the locations we visited, and comments including on Milton Road and Milton Avenue. It describes the work done with residents, ward councillors, and by Haringey staff to try and come up with improvements. (Including some bin sharing.)
It's true that the "cabinet" ruled out a return to weekly collections of general waste. But of course there are locations where this has happened because nothing else worked.
For example, I know a couple of locations where weekly waste collections were reinstated because too many people were ignoring the system and putting general waste in recycling bins. Sometimes other people's recycling bins! The problem Madeline raised on HoL.
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I wonder how these other locations were deemed worthy. I have been sending photos on a weekly basis, the crow pic is probably not even the worst. Last week I left the flat to find a bag ripped open by foxes and the path strewn with soiled nappies and nipple pads from breastfeeding. Fly tipping has increased two fold as people have begun to lose pride and scrap metal scavengers regularly go through the top of the bins ripping open bags making the situation worse. I have reached Stage 2 of formal complaints with Haringey and am now ready to go to the Ombudsman. If only money were no object I would take them to court!
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Christopher, I assume your three ward councillors are still working with you on this - so you are in good hands. I spoke briefly to Rachel Allison a while ago, and she shared your frustration about the lack of movement.
Subject to their advice and the views of your residents' association I wonder if you'd considered inviting Nick Walkley, the Chief Executive? I've been impressed with his willingness to 'walk the job' and see problems for himself.
If you are forced to go to the Ombudsman with your complaint, it could offer practical help to other Haringey residents if you and your residents' association publicise a record of the process and outcome.
A last question, have you had any response to the emails and photos you sent? I have considerable respect for Steve McDonnell and Michael McNicholas - senior staff in the Environment Department. (Though I don't necessarily agree with them!) But it's not like either of them to ignore emails.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by Neville Collins on
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I have to laugh.... despite repeated public concerns about the switch to fortnightly collections, the situation seems to get worse, with the council still refusing to change their position. But that's not the only problem. A lack of an ongoing campaign to encourage more residents and businesses to recycle has lead to many feeling unsure what to put out for collection. As a result many will just throw everything away...
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I also managed to get an article in the local press about the bins to which Cllr Canver in so many words told me to shut up and go away!
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