Recycling or landfill?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on July 26, 2010 at 13:39

As you say, Murat, this thread contains conflicting views. (Plus some sweeping assertions.)

Nothing wrong with scepticism, of course. Even better if it leads to sceptical questions with a request for facts / evidence.

As a long-standing critic of the Urban Environment Department, I retain a high regard for the Recycling team - who I've asked to read this thread. In the meantime, I strongly urge you and other people to keep calm and carry on recycling as usual.

(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)

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Permalink Reply by Liz on July 26, 2010 at 14:03

Recycling for areas that don't have green box collection is done via the clear sack method - it is very new and I'm not sure if that was what was being witnessed. Information on this is here. If you think that this system was not being put into operation correctly, then you can raise the issue with the couuncil and Enterprise by completing the form on the council website
Unless you have an outside space, I don't think that you can take your compostibles anywhere. I can't find any information. I could raise the issue at our next meeting.

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Permalink Reply by Jimbo on July 26, 2010 at 14:05

Thanks Liz, yes it was the clear sacks being thrown in with the domestic black bags.

As for my compost issues, let me know if you find out anything.

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Permalink Reply by pamish on July 31, 2010 at 10:50

Re composting - you could try the Bokashi system, where you keep a small bin indoors and add their magic dust. You could then offer the end product to gardeners downwind of you.

I did try it but must have done something wrong as I got a gooey mess that I had to bury deep (I have the priviledge of twelve square feet of open soil). In fact I'll be selling the kit soon if anyone else wants a try, I now stick to the outdoor worm bin that does work fine.

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Permalink Reply by Jimbo on July 31, 2010 at 11:00

'LOL' as they say in textspeak. Sounds... er... lovely. I've always liked a bit of rotting goo about the place.

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Permalink Reply by murat akkulak on July 26, 2010 at 14:05

Can I just thank everyone who has posted replies to this - it is always good to know there is a great pool of local knowledge and experience that residents can dip into.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on July 31, 2010 at 8:22

Jon Hastings from Haringey's Environmental Resources Team asked me to post the following in response to this discussion.
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Dear All,

It’s great to see Harringay Online having a lively discussion about recycling. Some serious questions have been raised about the council’s recycling services, so I thought it would be helpful to post a reply. Apologies for the length, but you’ve given me a lot to cover!

There seem to be four main issues:
1. Do we recycle what we collect?
2. Concerns about the method we use to collect recycling.
3. Queries on how the materials are sorted.
4. Reports of mixing of refuse and recycling in the same vehicle on main road collections.

Other people have already posted information about the mixed-material (or ‘commingled’) collection system, but I’ll go over the key points and give updates on some of the detail.

IS IT RECYCLED?

Let me start with the worries some people have that the recycling we collect may be sent to landfill or incineration. This is not the case. Aside from the moral and environmental implications of such actions, disposing of waste through these methods is simply a lot more expensive than sending it for recycling or composting. It’s a priority for Haringey (and all local authorities) to divert as much household waste as possible to these more sustainable alternatives – particularly as the financial situation for local government becomes ever more challenging.

Haringey Council has invested significant sums to build-up our recycling services to current levels, and we now operate a full recycling service alongside the normal refuse collections. This investment can be easily justified through the cost savings we make on waste disposal, by sending more material for recycling and composting. It would therefore be pointless to ask residents to separate their waste into different containers (and then send a separate vehicle to collect these every week) if we were then just going to burn or landfill it all.

MIXED-MATERIAL COLLECTIONS

People on HoL raised concerns about the mixed-material collection method, and particularly how it compares to ‘source-separated’ collections (where different materials go into different compartments on the vehicle). This issue continues to be at the forefront within the whole waste industry, and I avidly follow the debate in the trade press and online communities. This topic will run and run as waste technologies improve, and any firm statement from an expert for or against either system usually comes with a “but”. Even so, all parties seem to agree that one size does not fit all, and that local authorities need to look at their individual circumstances when choosing which way to go.

Haringey adopted the mixed-material system for several reasons, with comparative operating costs and the availability of supporting infrastructure being the most important. We also think it makes it easier to explain and operate for Haringey residents from a diverse and changing range of backgrounds. Providing the same level of service using source-separated systems usually requires a more complex array of bins and collection schedules – the 9-bin system in Newcastle-under-Lyme is often used as an example. All of our recycling services are now mixed-material, with the exception of the various special skips and bins at the two Reuse and Recycling Centres that let residents recycle a wider range of items.

I appreciate that some residents will doubt whether recycling can be adequately sorted when it has been mixed together and compacted in a large vehicle. Indeed, it’s a little frustrating that we can’t invite residents to see the sorting process for themselves – watching the streams of individual material types emerge from the various pieces of sorting machinery really shows that it does work. However, the materials recovery facilities (MRFs) are privately-operated and not set up to receive visitors, so we have to make do with photos and videos of the process to show what happens.

As mentioned in a previous post, Islington Council website has online videos about recycling.
Click here to view.

SORTING OF RECYCLING

Where does our recycled material go? The North London boroughs now use two different MRFs, namely Bywaters in Bow, and Greenstar’s new facility in Enfield (which is coming on-line at the moment, and will handle most of the material from Haringey). Both were built recently and incorporate the latest sorting technology, which means that a wider range of materials can be accepted. This enabled us to expand our recycling collections last October to include plastic tubs, trays, pots and bags, as well as drinks cartons (like Tetra Paks).

One of the comments in this thread suggested that up to 25% of material going through a MRF is rejected and sent to landfill or incineration. I too have seen numbers like this quoted – but for some of the older facilities in the UK which have many more restrictions on what they can accept.

We are not getting this rejection rate. Indeed, the current proportion of material that we collect that cannot be recycled is just 5%, and most of this is made up of non-recyclable items that people put into their recycling containers and bins in error.

FLATS ABOVE SHOPS

This thread was started when someone spotted refuse and recycling being thrown into the same compartment on the contractor’s vehicle on Green Lanes. What should have been happening was the black sacks being put in the larger compartment on the vehicle (for disposal), whilst the clear sacks should have been going into the thinner one (for recycling). This is a similar system to the normal weekly recycling collections, where the green boxes are emptied into one side (for recycling) and the food/garden waste into the other (for composting).

I’m very concerned to hear about this, and I will be looking for any more evidence that things were not being done correctly by the contractor at that time. However, our own monitoring of the contractor’s work suggests that the flats above shops collections are currently working as expected. (All the other recycling collections are run by our in-house service).

Can I please ask users of this forum to report anything untoward you see happening with a recycling collection - as soon as possible, so that we are able to take up the matter there and then. The best way to report issues is through the Haringey Enterprise Call Centre on 020 8885 7700. Or by email: haringey.enterprise@enterprise.plc.uk. Alternatively you can write directly to us at recycling@haringey.gov.uk

I hope that people find this helpful, but if you have any questions then please do email me at recycling@haringey.gov.uk

Kind regards,
Jon Hastings
Environmental Resources Team

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on July 31, 2010 at 13:47

Thanks very much for this detailed response Jon. That's really informative and helpful.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on July 31, 2010 at 14:30

Thanks for this Jon - really appreciated! I'll certainly contact your department if I notice anything helpful.

I'd like to know more, but understand completely if you don't have time to reply:

Do you have any broad figures for the amount of money our Council has invested in recycling and spends annually compared with the amount it gets back from recycling? It would be great to know, for example, that we are or soon will be in profit. What is the average cost/revenue from each type of bin and how (and where in the borough) is that figure changing? I guess that you may already have these figures as rewarding people for recycling has been mooted.

I'm interested (Should the Council allow residents to re-use and recycle at the Reuse and Recycling Centres?) in re-use. I'd like to understand the constraints you are under. As neighbouring Councils apparently allow 'salvaging', is is possible to understand the policy applied here?

Thanks again for taking the time to post.

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