Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Really P****d Off
I hope all you who have the vote in Harringay will remember tonight ( and certainly other nights to come ) and at the next election vote out the incompetent shower responsible for the introduction of the LTN.
My weekly 5-minute journey from Wightman Road to Green Lanes took 45 minutes, including 30 minutes to go the length of Hampden Road. Yes, I know that there was a burst water main. But in happier times traffic would have been distributed across the roads now blocked off and not confined to Green Lanes. Yes, I know that I could have taken a bus to sit in the same traffic jam as I did this evening but in any case there aren't any buses between my house and the bottom of Effingham Road.
I understand the concerns of those residents living in the LTN who hope that the pollution in their streets will be reduced but don't the residents of Green Lanes, Turnpike Lane and Wightman Road breathe ? don't their children have lungs ?. Where did the Council think the LTN traffic would go ?
And please don't suggest to this disabled person that I could have cycled. I couldn't.
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Years ago a Harringay Online member challenged me to read Jan Gehl the Danish urbanist. I did and one of the things I learned was that many businesses in Copenhagen opposed the initial proposals to pedestrianise what became the successful Strøget experiment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C3%B8get#History
Should the fears and risks to Haringey business owners be taken seriously?
Of course they should. And ways found to reduce risk if possible. But trust is needed and Haringey's record in supporting businesses is very patchy. It has played favourites.
But as people in this thread have pointed out, there are dozens of risk factors besides LTNs.
To go back to Copenhagen, for people without time to read books, Jan Gehl can be found on YouTube. He's included in a fascinating video from about twenty years ago. It begins with historical footage of New York's packed streets with pushcarts and dead horses, Then takes us to 20th Century New York, Paris, London and Copenhagen. For me a key learning point was that policy choices are possible which make modern cities better and more enjoyable places to live, work, to bring up kids, and build communities.
Here's a clip.
https://youtu.be/rstEWMD89L8?t=283I downloaded a longer version (56 minutes) but can no longer find it online. Here's one quote by Jan Gehl which I jotted down. He advised any city:
"To try to take the people in the city more seriously. Just as seriously as traffic of cars. All these cities have traffic Departments which get all these data all the time about traffic. They know everything. When it comes to people most cities know nothing."
With my apologies to Michael Anderson, in the same longer video Jan Gehl advises cities to take small steps. In Copenhagen he says, they took a little step every year for forty years. They didn't announce one master plan. "Because you will lose the election right now. Nobody would believe it would work."
Unfortunately we don't have forty years.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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I’ve been around in the area long enough to remember Green Lanes traders saying that
- The introduction of yellow lines on Green Lanes would kill business - it didn't
- The introduction of a bus lane on Green Lanes would kill businesses - it didn't
- The introduction of controlled parking on The Ladder and in The Gardens would kill businesses- it’s didn’t
- Making Ladder Streets one way would kill businesses - it didn't
- The temporary restrictions on Wightman Road during the bridge works would kill businesses - it didn’t
Businesses constantly overestimate the amount of business they get from those driving to their shops
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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth M on
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Absolutely right there - I first lived on the Ladder in 1986 and the businesses have been complaining since at least then about any and all traffic restrictions.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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Cars are not the only thing in traffic.
Vans, not just white vans but many other delivering things to shops, cafes, pubs etc plus there has been a huge increase in online shopping and deliveries hasn't there? The number of delivery vans has really risen. Cutting down on online shopping would help reduce traffic. Then there are those big lorries, HGVs moving and delivering lots of things here and there. Ambulances and other emergency vehicles as well as refuse trucks and others. Also we have motorbikes, bikes and a few other things such as e-scooters.
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when was the last time you saw motorbikes, bikes, e-scooters in a line of traffic? Never, they use the side of the road and pass trafffic.
If you think the rise in online shopping is causing traffic, good luck then solving this issue.
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I was merely pointing out what I see in the traffic whether I'm walking along the pavement or sat on buses. And yes I have seen and do see bikes etc in a line of traffic. Sometimes at the front of it such as at pedestrian crossings when the lights are green for the pedestrians and they are eagerly waiting for the lights to change. I was raising the issue of online shopping. I have no power, unfortunately, to solve any of these problems but it has to be admitted that if people bought less online and walked to local shops there would be fewer vans. Although the drivers would then lose jobs which is an issue. Actions and consequences, they all need considering.
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1 Sainsbury's delivery van with 10 people's "big shop" (or even 5) is better than 10 separate cars going to Sainsbury's. More online deliveries could go to cargo bike out at least electric for local deliveries but then people object to local delivery depots (see the one in Tufnell Park).
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I'm saying have you seen bikes, e-bikes or motorbikes lined up, 1 behind the other, causing congestion? No. That's what cars do that take up the entire lane. By design, alternative forms of transport reduce congestion. bikes, e-bikes and motorbikes must legally comply to the same road laws. So yes, they wait at the front of the traffic queue for the light to change. In a row, normally, not one behind the other, causing congestion.
It is the simplest point in this discussion.
Sure people can buy less online, but with the comments here about driving, I can only imagine what would happen if anyone tried to impose limits to online consumption on someone. Doesn't seem feasible. Sure cutting down on vans is important but to what Elizabeth says, efficient delivery of goods is better than an individual trip. Also, cargo bikes should definitely be encouraged. I don't see them often around Haringay, but more in central parts of the city.
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Delivery from supermarkets can have a role in reducing road traffic. If a single van delivers to say 20 households that is a potential saving of 20 car journeys.
I’ve just come back from Sainsburys and while I was walking to and from it on Williamson Road I kept an eye on the cars coming and going. I spotted 28 cars overall and only two of them had more than one passenger.
Personally I use a shopping trolley.
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I must agree with John D that we on Wightman Road also breathe or try to. However, if John were to be tempted to follow Caraj's advice to invest in a Mobility Scooter and take to speeding along our pavements/footways/pedestrian thoroughfares, I promise to immobilise John and scooter first time I meet them.
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