Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

I hope all you who have the vote in Harringay will remember tonight ( and certainly other nights to come ) and at the next election vote out the incompetent shower responsible for the introduction of the LTN.

My weekly 5-minute journey from Wightman Road to Green Lanes took 45 minutes, including  30 minutes to go the length of Hampden Road. Yes, I know that there was a burst water main. But in happier times traffic would have been distributed across the roads now blocked off and not confined to Green Lanes. Yes, I know that I could have taken a bus to sit in the same traffic jam as I did this evening but in any case there aren't any buses between my house and the bottom of Effingham Road. 

I understand the concerns of those residents living in the LTN who hope that the pollution in their streets will be reduced but don't the residents of Green Lanes, Turnpike Lane and Wightman Road breathe ? don't their children have lungs ?. Where did the Council think the LTN traffic would go ? 

And please don't suggest to this disabled person that I could have cycled.  I couldn't.

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, traffic

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"look at the accident stats": reference to evidence that is not presented

"more traffic is now o  these roads": empirical claim presented in the absence of evidence

" the traffic here has certainly increased": repetition of earlier empirical claim presented once again in the absence of evidence

"if you put kids' safety first": rhetorical appeal suggesting a logical conclusion based on earlier unproved and repeated empirical claim

This is how propaganda works.

Eric — Crashmap.co.uk has irrefutable evidence from the pre-pandemic years that Green Lanes and West Green Road had monumentally more accidents than any or all of the St Ann’s (now LTN) roads put together. They are already both very dangerous roads without any extra traffic being added. It also shows that the whole St Ann’s scheme is predicated on a tiny number of accidents on just three roads in St Ann’s — all extremely regrettable, but in no way supportive of council claims that the whole area is a sea of “rat-runners” inexorably driven through by Waze.

If the area isn't a sea of rat-runners driven by Waze then where is all this extra traffic that people are complaining about coming from? 

Andrew — Presumably some of the regular users of Black Boy Lane, Cornwall Road, etc, plus east-west traffic that would normally filter easily, and not necessarily at speed, through the area in smaller numbers, but which collectively adds up. My point was that the council has claimed — without offering any evidence — that St Ann’s was a constant rat-runners’ delight, when in fact most of the roads were deserted most of the day, with only driving instructors and deliveries using road space. What’s happened with the closures is that normal patterns of travel have been disrupted; it doesn’t take many individual vehicles having to deviate from their chosen route to increase the numbers on main roads (eg if you normally make a left turn but now have to go straight on). The “rat-running” case for St Ann’s was always spurious — it’s only necessary to look at the Ladder in comparison for examples of traffic using side roads as access routes because of LB Haringey’s traffic planning and their complete failure to sort out Green Lanes.

Well, based on the last comprehensive counts, Black Boy Lane carries as much traffic as half a dozen ladder streets and then Cornwall Rd, Avenue Rd and Woodlands Park Road carry way more than any ladder street does. Just those 4 roads carry about the same traffic as all the ladder rungs and then you get roads like Etherly, Cranleigh and Gorleston which are carrying similar numbers to ladder roads.

The council did present some evidence based on telematics:

● Using this limited data available, we anticipate that that by introducing Option A, we will be stopping approximately
20,000 motor vehicles in a 12-hour period (7am-7pm), (approximately 2,000 in the morning rush hour and 3,000 in
the evening rush hour) from traveling through the LTN.
● This represents approximately 70-75% of motor traffic travelling between 7am and 7pm within the LTN area

You can't limit traffic on Black Boy Lane and those other north/south routes without closing other roads or else traffic will just divert on to the next unfiltered street (this has been pointed out multiple times). It's either close the whole section to through traffic or leave those north/south routes open.

Hang on... did you say "all along the 5 min run to school"? Are you saying it normally takes you just 5 minutes to do the school run? What distance is that? 

You see what I'm saying?

And how many on the buses which are stuck in the same traffic???

Eric, what about all the people and children living in areas who now have to put up with the increase in pollution due to the displaced traffic? 

These LTN's are nearly as contentious an issue as the poll tax was, and we know what happened to that. Yes, a rebrand in name only :) Seriously though if the publics rage against this imposition continues then they will have to go, and good riddance. 

I can't quite work out the journey here, why were you going up Lausanne going from Wightman to Green Lanes?

Personally I'd say the roadworks probably have a lot more impact than the LTN. Those streets near Ducketts Common have been full of cars trying to avoid the ones on Turnpike Lane in the past few weeks.

My mistake. Should have said Hampden.  Well spotted. Edited. 

Thanks, that makes sense. I'm normally walking past there for both rush hours and it's got really bad since the roadworks on Turnpike Lane started (which obviously coincided with the West Green LTN but was after the St Ann's LTN).

I think this kind of thing is why it is way too early to make a judgement on the LTNs. There are lots of factors in play and you can't separate them out over the course of a few weeks.

One thing I would say is that the council do seem to be doing a a good job with the data. There are lots of counts in various areas before and after the LTN introduction and they are also doing counts in Crouch End to see what happens in an area with no LTN.
All of this is being made available to the public on an ongoing basis if you go to
https://my.haringey.gov.uk/Haringey.aspx
Go to My Maps
and select Streets for People you can access all the measuring locations and data.

Hopefully this should allow for an informed (and open) decision further down the line.

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