Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Questions for law enforcement re Womens Personal Safety in the area

Following a discussion with David Lammy's researcher Nora Mulready this afternoon about setting up a meeting with law enforcement around the issue of women's personal safety following the three rapes in recent months in the area, I have offered to collate questions for the police that can be passed on in preparation for the meeting.

So far I have picked up 12 clear questions from the Street Harrassment reports thread which are attached as a document

Questions for law enforcement2.doc

This document has now been sent on to David Lammy's office who will endeavour to get answers to our questions. We'll keep you posted.

UPDATED 8 March 2010

Questions

Tags for Forum Posts: personal safety, women

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Permalink Reply by OneWomanAndHerDog on March 5, 2010 at 16:32

Liz

As an appendix to question 4 I would like to ask:

Have there been similar recent sexual assaults in neighbouring areas and are any of these thought to be related to the assaults in Harringay?

I ask this as I think it unlikely that the men responsible will confine themselves to a 'manufactured' geographical location and I am aware of recent sexual assaults on women in both Downhills Park and Queens Wood, Highgate.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 5, 2010 at 16:44

Liz, well done for suggesting this meeting and helping to set it up.

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Permalink Reply by andy mcquade on March 5, 2010 at 16:52

Can you clarify -as Ms.Canver's office has not seen fit to even acknowledge an earlier request for information in this regard -whether any halfway houses for ex-offenders have been granted licence in the local area? This may be clutching at straws but it strikes me as very strange indeed that we are experiencing such a shocking increase of offences against women in such a small space of time -seemingly from various males if eyewitness descriptions are to be taken seriously.

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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on March 5, 2010 at 22:24

I'm not so happy about 7,8 and perhaps 9. It's not illegal but it gives them ammunition to ask for it to be made illegal and they've gotten away with worse in the last 10 years. Tonight I stood beside three likely lads from a building site (I guess) near Bishopsgate waiting to cross the road. They gave the two women in the Mercedes convertible with the top up a hell of a send off as they finally got out of our way. A law to cover foreigners in Harringay would cover chavs in the city too...

PS They appeared to love it... go figure.

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Permalink Reply by Liz on March 5, 2010 at 23:01

I'm not sure people are asking for extra legislation but to look at existing legislation for clarification and also for the police to look at measures that might stop the offenders before it gets to the stage where they have provoked distress or fear.

These are the questions people want asked so they will be forwarded to the relevant people.

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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on March 5, 2010 at 23:08

three likely lads from a building site (I guess) near Bishopsgate........ chavs in the city

I must protest in the strongest possible terms at this identification.
My first job in this country was on a Coventry building site (I worked for Laing but not for long). Are Warwickshire's Finest still on the trail of this Irish chav for some city centre indiscretion in the summer of 1959 ?

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Permalink Reply by ElleCarumba on March 7, 2010 at 12:30

I wrote questions 7, 8 and 9.
According to the information provided by JohnD on the other thread, there is legislation that already covers obscene and offensive behaviour.

Its pretty important to know whether it is an offence because if it is, then we can much more easily put pressure on the police to do something about it. It also gives women the confidence to report incidents to police and perhaps build up a picture of where the persistent offenders lurk. If the police have the intelligence to work out if some incidents are connected, they could perhaps have a talk with the proprietors of these establishments and they might be inclined to rein in their customers. This would probably be much more effective than prosecutions.

On a vaguely connected note, I was given a "hell of a send off" by two builders on Wightman Road yesterday morning. Its not funny and its not acceptable. I just wish I'd had the wits about me to take down the details of their van and complain to their boss but I was actually quite frightened, making it hard to think straight. I'm perfectly happy for the police to investigate chavs in the city who harass me as much as the "foreigners in Harringay". I work in the city but haven't had nearly as many nasty experiences there as on GL.

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Hayes on March 7, 2010 at 19:47

I think the questions cover must of the key points and it will be interesting to see how much the police will answer.

In the case of reporting, when my friends incident was in the local press they withheld what I would consider vital information but then included information that she was not aware of (the actual location and the details about the man in the cab office). I don't want to say what they withheld as I don't know the reason behind withholding it but it would answer at least one other question.

As for the "half-way" houses (are they still really called that?) I worked for the government within the local area a few years ago and I know of at least one that was on Warham Road. My client that was housed there was an ex-offender (they do not have to disclose the actual crime). A few months later I was informed that he had re-offended and gone back to prison. He was only when his face was all over the front page of the local paper that I learnt that he mugged and assualted vulnerable women, namely young girls on their own and pregnant women in the local area. My understanding was that such a place is a hostel and within one house there are as many as ten individual bedsits.

I think the meeting is a brilliant idea and look forward to it (can I reserve a front row seat!)

Also meant to say that in discussion with the officer who took my statement she said that Green Lanes has some of the best CCTV in the area (those of us with a parking fine will know) but it does depend on which way they are facing in relation to the incidents.

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Permalink Reply by Liz on March 8, 2010 at 17:32

UPDATE:

Nora Mulready has been working on getting the Borough Commander to agree to a meeting. She has spoken to the Borough Commander's office and they're getting her an updated statement on this issue - hopefully by tomorrow. As soon it comes in, we'll post it

It looks like the public meeting in the form we had envisaged might not be possible. The Borough Commander has said that, as Haringey police can't give out any more info than that which will be in the statement a public meeting might not be particularly beneficial. Nora and I discussed the possibility of asking the Safer Neighbourhoods Team (http://www.met.police.uk/teams/haringey/harringay/) if one of their surgeries could be dedicated to the issue of personal safety in Harringay and that everyone who would like to attend can attend (and that the surgery could be in the evening or at the weekend so more people could attend if they wished.) This would still enable people to share their concerns directly with local police officers.

Nora is happy to contact the SNT if people think this is an idea that should be pursued. Let her know what you think here or on her page. You can also email her privately at the email on her page.

We can still get answers from the Borough Commander to all the questions raised on the site so I am finsihing the collating and sending them to Nora who has done a grand job of getting this pushed along quickly so many thanks from us all to her for that.