Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Petition - Changes to Haringey Waste Services
Hi Everyone [click here for the direct link to the petition].
The recent changes to Haringey's waste service have been well documented on this site in recent days. To recap, these include charging for garden waste collections, replacement bins (unless damaged by Veolia) and bulk collections. If you're familiar with the context, then please feel free to head straight to the petition here. NB... Per Michael's comment please scroll to the end of the next page on the petition site to register your signature.
If not, then read on... Charging for these services isn't uncommon in London - a number of boroughs now do so. However, the basis and evidence case that Haringey Council have used for this is questionable. Papers presented to council members for the Medium Term Financial Strategy (of which this forms part) shows the impact assessment of these changes on residents. There are seven potential negative outcomes on residents identified in Council decision papers as a result of implementing these changes. These are:
- An increase to fly tipping
- Increased use of Recycling and Reuse Centres (one of which I believe is earmarked for closure)
- A decrease in overall resident satisfaction
- An increase in side waste
- Discouraging recycling
- An increase in stolen bins
You can see the assessment here. No single positive outcome to residents was identified. For the council, a positive benefit of £775k in year one, dropping by 30% in year 2 to £525 suggesting the sustainability of these proposals is poor. In order to implement the changes, the Council will be investing at least £150k (IT systems, comms etc). Furthermore, no evidence was presented that a saving will be realised on the Veolia contract due to the reduction in scope.
Given the issues of fly tipping across the borough continue to gather pace, the council have had evidence provided to them that these changes will only serve to increase the problem. Personally, I don't find that acceptable. Things are pretty bad as it stands (example view of a local road today attached). If you agree, please do take a couple of moments to sign the petition by clicking on the link at the top.
Could I close with a small favour to ask? If anyone knows any means to spread this petition to other community sites, blogs etc in Haringey, please do so! Thank you for reading.
Tags for Forum Posts: waste collection charges
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JJ B on
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Haringey..the inept borough. They are so clumsy ...look at the oversized parking signs and the stupid costly logo.
They are a lost cause and using austerity to excuse ineptitude and vested interests.
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Permalink Reply by Esat Karahasan on
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I've been putting. Up with scenes like this outside my office in Harringay for five years, and have complained and discussed at such length with Harringay the member of staff at front line services actually became very friendly with me and still is now that he's been made redundant. I've given so many cheaper, better and more plausible options for the council for what in my part of the area is caused by a lack of wheelie bins due to the properties being flats with no front gardens finishing directly onto Wightman Road. But the council thought it better to go to daily collections at 9am and when this didn't work introduced a second daily collection at 3pm which is a total waste as I've yet to see any bags being put out before second collection! Hey ho it's the haringey way I suppose, so while I've signed the petition I won't hold my breath as the new head of department dealing with these issues was supposed to call me back and arrange to pop down and meet me as well as seeing the problem and my solution ideas in person, this was six months ago and still waiting!!!
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Permalink Reply by Lyn Weber on
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Thanks Peter S for a thoughtful petition. Also thanks to Hugh for confirming that the unnamed petition is from a genuine person who cares about our community. I am no longer happy to sign or hand my details over to unknown sources due to spam, cold calling, potential virus attacks and all the other rubbish that comes with unknown sources.
This petition is well reasoned and asks the Council to rethink what they are demanding of residents and traders in regard to increasing the charges for garden waste, bulky items and charging for replacement containers. The Councillors who appear to have agreed the cuts have not thought through the consequences already listed by Peter for all residents. Plus green spaces whether they are public or private spaces help to control air pollution. Lawns, trees and plants help to soak up rain water. Although not visible, everyone benefits from cleaner air and less flash flooding. It would not reflect well on Harringey if residents cut back on planting or reduce their green spaces. And what about Veolia, they have various targets for street cleanliness etc. We know there are areas that they struggle with, particularly in high turn over rental areas and areas where external waste storage space is minimal. Haringey should be working with all their contractors to deliver good services. Haringey Councillors know full well that introducing new charges to take away bulky rubbish and garden waste will result in more fly tipping, which means more pressure on their contractor and the work force.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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"Haringey Councillors know full well that introducing new charges to take away bulky rubbish and garden waste will result in more fly tipping, which means more pressure on their contractor and the work force."
Two points here, Lyn. First you may be are right - and my guess is that you are - about the likely increase in fly-tipping and the false assumption of savings.
But are you really sure that councillors do in fact know this "full well"? Or to be more exact, even understand that this is a serious risk if not a strong possibility. You and I were both on the Council and saw up-close what Haringey Councillors are permitted to know. Or in some cases are capable of understanding. Or are curious about.
You also know how often they are either kept completely in the dark or fed half-truths. You know how much the Kober regime operates a diseased, secretive, defensive, authoritarian culture.
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Hello Alan I agree it's impossible for back bench Councillors to keep up with absolutely everything because there is so much paper work where the detail is often buried. However it really is down to each elected Councillor to ask questions and what they choose to look into. Casework and complaints used to help shape my enquiring interests. Councillors who are regularly in their wards will have also witnessed the current levels of dumped furniture etc, what happens when things go wrong on collection days (for example when a dustcart breaks down and there is no replacement dustcart to come to take over the same day) and how changes in service affect the local community. When you delve into the working as to what went wrong - you get answers such as waiting for spare parts from Germany because .....etc. Or the street was cleared of dumped rubbish and half an hour later more rubbish is dumped. The contractor has done their job but they get blamed for failing to clear the street and of course the contractor doesn't always get it right due to human error. If the current Councillors are involved with their residents - they will have had case work in relation to waste services. Waste services changes and charges should be on their radar to investigate. Which of their constituents will it affect? How will it affect them? Who has looked at the consequences and what are they?
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Lyn I have very great respect for your work when you were a councillor and your independence of mind. I agree with your view that each councillor needs to keep asking questions and as you say: "delve into the working as to what went wrong".
Where I suspect you and I may part company is in how far that delving leads to a problem being solved. And to what "solving" actually means. The examples you give are helpful in beginning to make this clear. Rubbish cleared; street re-dumped 30 minutes later. Human error by a contractor.
Among the missing pieces in your jigsaw - all of us have our own - I'd want to see questions about the the possibility that recurring patterns are due to systemic, and cultural features. I'd guess that we might agree that structural issues and personnel issues are also vital. As is learning from failed or partly failed experiments. "Failing forward" is a term I quite like.
But then we arrive at Haringey Labour Council under its current right-wing leadership. As we've seen, it may treat critical questions by Labour councillors as "uncomradely". Offences punishable with suspension and warning. To the point where some of them self-censor.
It's an organisation with closed-minded self-satisfied leaders, smug inside their dysfunctional authoritarian culture. A culture with the disposition and learning capacity of a goldfish swimming around its bowl for the third million time.
To change the metaphor, Lyn, sometimes a child with an injured knee calls for some cream, a plaster and a cuddle. Sometimes you summon the ambulance. And later work towards a redesign of the playground.
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As often, I have not received any council circular telling me about the waste charges. Could those who did please say what form it was in (special leaflet, or part of....what ...?) , when received, and what department is given as the issuing /publishing department ? or was it from Veolia? Then I could take the non-information up in the best quarter. Thanks.
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It was an A5 leaflet delivered alone (not an insert) about a month ago, with Veolia and Haringey logos but no other publishing info. The current edition of 'Haringey People' has, on page 24, very similar information [pdf file].
See http://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/haringey_peopl...
The only significant difference between leaflet and article is the article omits to say that if you need a new or replacement rubbish (black top) or recycling (green top) bin from now on, you'll have to pay £30.
I can't find the leaflet itself on the council website. The individual pages in the recycling section seem to be up to date, but it's a bit of a plod through a lot of them to accumulate what's in the leaflet. There's an external link to the Veolia website, to an FAQ page.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Haringey have now financed a new billboard poster campaign to promote their new scheme.
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What happens if you refuse to pay, put your garden waste in a black bag and put it in the black bin? After all for a 30t x 9ft plot we are not talking about more than an average cubic foot a week if that!
Like so many other things, this new charge is regressive against low income residents with small gardens. Some would say just compost it, but I am already trying to do that with my food waste which makes much better compost than twiggy stuff....and compost making space is VERY limited.
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