Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Parking controls: the need for some relief for our High Streets
MANY longer-term Haringey residents will have patronised, or at least know of Thomas Brothers, the big hardware store near the Archway junction.
This shop has supplied the community with advice, knowledge, hand & power tools, machinery & gardening equipment and dealt in timber, hardware, brass foundry and ironmongery – since 1920.
At 798-804 Holloway Road (N19 3JH), it's in Islington Borough.
After 93 years of service, this traditional store will close its doors shortly after the London local elections.
I saw the shopkeepers on Friday.
Draconian parking restrictions, enforced with a nearby camera have, almost literally, driven customers away. Now, the shop is closing, not because of a lack of demand for DIY material, but principally because of parking policies, where local councils appear to care nothing for small businesses.
Unlike say a coffee shop or a restaurant – or betting shop – DIY customers need to park close-by to take away and load large and/or heavy items. Some relief would be afforded by a policy allowing for the first 30 minutes of parking to be free.
After more than nine decades, the shop is now in the last days of its Closing Down Sale. It is sad and a couple of customers have separately told me its a tragedy.
Traditional businesses on our High Streets are being strangled and local councils do not care.
Disclosure:
I am a prospective councillor candidate
Highgate Ward | Liberal Democrat Party
Tags for Forum Posts: DIY, Thomas, brothers, hardware, parking
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Philip on
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This is terrible news. That must surely be the best and last good tool shop in North London and I have long feared its demise. I hate going to superstores where you spend hours looking for stuff and the staff know nothing. Local authority parking policies (of all parties) have favoured the big stores at the expense of small traders.
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Retailers significantly overestimate the proportion of their trade which comes from people driving to them.
http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/policylobbying/transport/parkingin...
Given that private car ownership in London is pretty low I think they are more likely to have been affected by internet shopping than parking restrictions. If I need something heavy I buy it online and it's delivered to my door for less money. I use local shops for smaller items which I want now or need advice on.
They may find people tell them it's parking, but that's because it's easier to say that than admit to preferring to pay less even though this hurts the local business.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Fascinating report and I think a must read for those proposing free parking on Green Lanes. Especially the following quotes from pages 4 and 5
"There is no such thing as ‘free’ parking. The costs of developing and maintaining parking spaces and then enforcing proper use to ensure good traffic flow have to be borne by somebody. In the case of local authority operated parking (on street or off street) any costs that are not covered by parking revenue falls to local Council Tax payers.
Shopkeepers consistently overestimate the share of their customers coming by car. In some cases, this is by a factor of as much as 400%. In London, as well as other cities, the share of those accessing urban centres on foot or by public transport is much greater. Walking is the most important mode for accessing local town centres; public transport is the most important mode for travel to international centres, such as Oxford Street"
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Permalink Reply by Cllr Emina Ibrahim on
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Evidence shows that businesses really do overestimate the share of their customers who visit by car. This rings true for me and I think practices have changed over time. For example back in 70s and 80's Yasar Halim and Fairline as well as the traditional Cypriot Bakeries like Barnaby and Halepi used to get a high proportion of custom from all over London as the only other large specialist Cypriot/Mediterranean grocers was in New Cross but didn't have the range and the bread etc. So people would drive from the outer corners of South, East and West London and stock up on our cultural foods. Times changed Mediterranean food became more mainstream and most supermarkets started stocking the Cypressa brand and then international food shops started springing up across London. The fact is the shops on Green Lanes do well from local trade as its a dense residential area unlike the high streets that are doing less well and need a good proportion of drivers to come and stay longer and spend more. I think when a driver can stay longer of course they will spend more and the fact that they are driving means they don't have to lug heavier bags home or on the 29 bus where on Saturdays they are unlikely to get a seat! However balance this out with the fact that shoppers on foot and cycle will buy less in a single visit BUT will visit more often and may even be spending more in the long term. I don't think it makes great business sense to increase the traffic levels in the area by introducing this on Green Lanes as I think evidence shows that in areas where you have a traffic problem anyway doing this could lead to grid lock. We have the Lib Dems proposing a comprehensive traffic survey (which I agree with) and on the other hand proposing something which will compound the problem with little evidence that it will have a significant impact on increasing trade for businesses. If you balance that out with the prospect of angering residents on the ladder and in the gardens then what you will have is a situation that puts businesses and their primary local custom at loggerheads.
Emine Ibrahim
Labour Party Candidate (Harringay Ward)
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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I haven't read all that report but i did open the pdf and see in the "Main Conclusions" section the very first one says:
A well managed parking scheme, where spaces ‘turn over’ frequently can help to increase the number of visitors coming to a town centre and thereby help business.
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It really is about context and when you have an area with high levels of traffic whether this would compound the issue is really the question. Its an example of an off the shelf policy from Pickles which does not take in to account the local context. Encouraging cars to stay longer does not increase turnover however if the idea is that people will stay 30 mins and go, well then that defeats the argument that we want people to stay longer and spend more. There is not very much you can do in 30 minutes.
Emine Ibrahim
Labour Party Candidate (Harringay Ward)
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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The people who are heading North along Green Lanes and stop to shop seem to be mostly couples where one stays in the car to avoid a ticket and the other hops out to get one back of shopping. I understand that the plural of anecdote is not data but I am just saying that many people are already working around the current parking restrictions during rush hour to use the shops.
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Tradesmen don't tend to need to park to shop in rush hour. The shops are relying on trade heading home and wanting some dinner with ingredients purchased as they drive past.
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This is not the case. I would love to use local traders but can't park, whereas retail parks are allowed to provide free car parks and have not trouble getting planning permission to build. Builders and related trades need material asap but cant go to smaller outlets as they can't park. Thomas Bros is a case in point. It is an excellent tool shop with knowledgeable staff and competitive pricing. Look at others. Chris Stevens on Holloway Road provides very competitive decorating materials at half the price of the superstores, but is hell to park outside with parking attendants constantly prowling and loading only allowed on one side of the road for .20 minutes. Or very busy plumbing supplies company TML on Hornsey High Street. Again a very busy shop with staff who know the business and good prices. Always white vans outside but again, highly restrictive parking. This is no fantasy of old fashioned retailers but a reality caused by preferential treatment of major retail companies.
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Philip, this was a major survey and dealt with facts rather than supposition. They found that free parking increased the traffic volume but did not increase the volume of people visiting stores. It also found that those who walked or used public transport actually spent more money in shops over the course of a month than those traveling by car. I have used Thomas Bros and if I can't carry it I arrange delivery or they ring for a cab to get me home.
The big hit that independent retailers suffer from (and I agree they provide a much better service than the chains) is that the chains can undercut on loss leaders to get people into their shops. They can also afford national advertising.
By the way, if I go to Homebase or Wickes I walk or get the bus so their massive car parks are something I put up with rather than find attractive.
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Thank you for giving your experience. But of course anecdotes are not data - that's the point of commissioning the report above.
For example, you are happy to drive to Holloway - I guess you are on the ladder itself. So that's one person's reality. On the other hand we are another mile or so East and there's no way I would drive to Holloway to buy anything. It's nothing to do with parking, the volume of traffic makes it completely ridiculous to waste an hour or more just to drive 3 or 4 miles and back. So that's one person as well, with a totally different reality.
Here's another anecdote. We've spend tens of thousands of pounds on DIY and the same again on builders and trades over the last few years. All the DIY, which includes building a patio and completely gutting and rebuilding a kitchen and bathroom, has been done without a car either through online ordering or walking/biking/bussing to local suppliers and carrying home or arranging delivery. I've biked home with all the paint for our bedroom walls, woodwork and ceiling, undercoat and topcoats - was a bit wobbly but entirely doable.
Whereas if my builder needs to get a part he disappears off in the van that's him gone at least half a day sitting in traffic. If he borrowed my bike he'd be there and back in twenty minutes max.
There are too many vehicles on the roads, and they are screwing up our quality of life. It's not about tinkering with parking here or there: we just don't have the capacity for the twentieth century model any more. We do however have alternatives now that we didn't used to, and businesses who embrace them will survive and businesses who don't will not.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Where will they park when those sea levels have all risen by 1metre?
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