Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
'NO' to Ending free bulky waste collections and closing the recycling centre
Haringey's current budget proposals will see the end of free bulky and green waste collections and the closure of one of the recycling centres.
These changes are likely to spell real trouble in this borough. It will inevitably lead to a significant increase in dumping with the poorest areas being hardest hit.
Research has shown that introducing a charge can lead to a drop in demand for collections of 50-75% on previous levels. Fly-tipping will increase as a result.
An alternative approach to introducing a collection charge would be to limit or reduce the number of items accepted for free, and/or the number of free collections allowed per year.
An alternative to closing the recycling centre would be to control who uses the centre and make a small charge as appropriate.
The cabinet meets to decide on this issue in two weeks' time. Whilst the consultation is now closed you can still email the cabinet member responsible (peray.ahmet@haringey.gov.uk) and copy your councillor.
Budget proposals: http://www.haringey.gov.uk/local-democracy/policies-and-strategies/...
Survey (CLOSED 22 JAN): http://www.haringey.gov.uk/survey/budget-2017-18
Tags for Forum Posts: rubbish, waste collection, waste collection charges
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Katie K on
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Thanks v much! My new green waste bag was delivered today, impressed by that service from Haringey/Veolia as I only reported it awol on Friday.
I can't reply to your other question about councillors for some reason, but West Green ones are Eugene Ayisi, Eddie Griffith and Toni Mallett (and there's a list here). I have previously found Toni Mallett quite responsive, but I haven't had any luck with any of them over this issue.
Katie
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Fascinating stuff. If you look at the figures for both Enfield and Haringey, they have jumped significantly in the past few years. In 2012/13 there were 17.8k reports in Enfield and 12.4k in Haringey. But 2015/16 this has shot up to 70.9k and 34k respectively. There are several explanations (the the truth might be one or a combination of them)
- There really has been a huge rise in fly tipping in these two boroughs but not, for some reason, in similar, neighbouring boroughs
- New waste contracts came in after 12/13 and there is some benefit to the contractor in defining these incidents as fly tipping
- There was significant under reporting of flytipping before 13/14
- The definition of a fly tip has changed but only in Enfield and Haringey
- new IT systems have made in easier to report fly tipping
Any thoughts?
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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Well my own view based purely on my own reporting is that I didn't report anything before I downloaded the Report It app on my phone but in 2017 have submitted in excess of 20 reports. So I believe this is the main reason why the figures have risen so dramatically.
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Permalink Reply by EMC2 on
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I'm with Antoinette - down to the phone App - I've reported numerous. Some I've had to re-report 4 times over several months as it wasn't removed so I suspect there's lots of double/triple reporting, AND, as you say, there is some benefit to the contractor in defining these incidents as (new) fly tipping...
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My understanding from the enquiries I made at my own Council is that the app (or rather the database that sits behind it) is able to recognise multiple reports of the same fly-tip so the statistics remove duplicate reports.
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Maybe so Antoinette but I find it is (or was) common for Haringey incidents to be shown as completed (and closed) when the rubbish was still there and I, and possibly others, would re-report it...
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When I asked the council why a reported issue is closed when passed to a third party, a Service Officer replied with the following:
"Please be advised that this is a relatively complex issue with regard to the way the app works. I understand that if the work is to be logged and actioned by the same team the report will be closed as soon as it has been actioned. However, if the report is received by one team and then referred to another it will be automatically closed as soon as it has been referred to the third party. The technology does not allow for the person actioning the report to confirm to the original receiver that the issue has been resolved. If the report was not closed at the time it was referred to a third party it would remain open indefinitely."
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""A Defra spokesman said: “Fly-tipping blights communities and the local environment, which is why we are committed to tackling this anti-social behaviour so everyone can enjoy a cleaner, healthier neighbourhoods and countryside.""
All these articles are doing is reporting the issue. They are not challenging the politicains in charge to really get off their backs...s and change the systems in place.
The chickens are coming home to roost! This 'anti social behaviour' is a symptom of a larger problem not the main malaise itself.
The shortsightedness of thinking that just cutting funding i.e services, can bring about savings.
Just cutting services and applying accounting solutions to systemic problems is working out to be very brutal and totally inefficient. But no one is saying that! Just laying the blame on criminal gangs who are taking advantage of a situation created by the powers that be!
Surely it is better to continue to fund a decent collection service and to introduce 'brutal' measures aimed at the generators of all the waste i.e creators of the rubbish i.e industry and retailers to coerce them to seriously work on the amount of packaging, etc, and to come up with strategies for electrical items to be returned for recycling, etc, etc. We need an obligtaion for companies to make provision for this. And as someone said green waste will just end up in general waste and eventually they'll start charging for that on a quantity basis as has been attempted in some areas already where there are elctronic meters on your bin and the truck weighs how much is in it. Then people will just start putting rubbish in the neighbours bin or in the general street bins and teh problem gets pushed along.
Of course people will just throw the stuff at the nearest convenient place because it is easy to do so and costly every time you can't just put it in the bin.
But let's not fool ourselves. They target us because we are sitting ducks!
Don't forget that they are also cutting funding to local police services...so they can't help chase the culprits when there are other more serious criminals to attend to.
And they are cutting funding to council enforcement services because money is more needed for social services.
There you go. No one is talking about the sytemic crisis - How we organise and pay for our public services to ensure that we have a good quality of life. NO ONE!
AND the Tories are talking about reducing tax rates to make the UK into a low tax haven.
The opposition is useless.
To add to it all everyone is focussing all the energies of the State (i.e human and financial resources) for the next few years on Brexiting.
HOW will we pay for things that make the place a 'developed economy' and not regress to standards that we call third world?
CUT CUT CUT! We are in trouble! The chickens are coming home to roost.
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What I personally see a lot of is rubbish dumped around telecommunications wiring boxes which are conveniently placed for dumpers at the end of most roads. At the very least we should have "don't dump rubbish here" stickers on them with details of the possible fine. I often challenge people who I see walking out of their homes and businesses, past their own bins, to dump rubbish next to these boxes. People claim not to realise that what they are doing is even wrong let alone illegal.
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What I personally see a lot of is rubbish dumped around telecommunications wiring boxes which are conveniently placed for dumpers at the end of most roads. At the very least we should have "don't dump rubbish here" stickers on them with details of the possible fine. I often challenge people who I see walking out of their homes and businesses, past their own bins, to dump rubbish next to these boxes. People claim not to realise that what they are doing is even wrong let alone illegal.
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I've had a bit more of a look at the number again, this time the number of actions local authorities took on fly tipping reports (that is investigation, warnings, legal actions- not just clearing them up). Again the numbers make interesting reading when you compare them to our neighbours
Authority. Reported fly tips./ Number of actions taken
Haringey. 34,975. / 3,615 (10%)
Barnet. 5,999. / 615 (10%)
Camden. 7,268. / 4,719 (65%)
Enfield. 70,930./ 5,292 (7%)
Hackney. 7,268. / 9,494
Islington. 4,174. / 8,250
I checked the Hackney and Islington numbers and they did take action on more cases than they received so this looks like historic cases were being actioned. Barnet tend not to do anything that costs money so I think they can be discounted. That all leaves Haringey with a low number of actions being taken against fly tippers. I know it's not always possible to identify who is dumping the rubbish but what is it that our neighbours are doing that allows them to take action in a far high number of cases and should Haringey be perhaps learning from them?
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