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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

TfL has announced that it placing a £1.5bn order to design and build almost 100 new tube trains for use on the Piccadilly line.

This order will mean the replacement of the entire 1970s Piccadilly line fleet from 2023.

The upgrade will mean up to 27 trains-per-hour to operate at peak times by the end of 2026 (up from the current service level of 24). This is a train every 2 minutes at the busiest times.

Each new train will be six metres longer than the existing Piccadilly line trains. They will include walk-through, fully air conditioned carriages and improved accessibility.

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Excellent news!

Great news. I noticed how much more room the circle and ginger line trains seem to have because of their design. These look similar.

I wonder if they will move any faster, I am not sure if it is the trains or the track but the Piccadilly Line trains always seem much slower than the Victoria Line trains?

I also noted the point about the trains having an 'operator' on board, but being designed so they do not need one. I wonder, when the train drivers go on strike and make everyone's lives a misery will these trains be able to run without said 'operator', minimising the impact of a strike on the poor sods relying on the tube? I guess we can expect strikes in protest in the run up...

Or the drivers can be appropriately pensioned off! If your job is replaced by a robot then you should be retired.

DLR case in point. Makes perfect sense to commisssion autonomous/semi autonomous technology today with one eye on the future. Can’t wait - eliminates human error and hopefully lowers cost for passengers. And those strikes...

Yes and when there is another Parsons Green partially detonated/ exploding bomb  on board there will be no-one there to make the decision to have a speedy evacuation and then decide to quickly close the doors behind the passengers to guard against further injury from a potential explosion, and then lead passengers safely across live tracks to get them to safety. I'd like to see the robot driver get out of the cab and do that!

On 02/03/2012 the automatic devices on a tube train and platform informed the tube driver that there were no obstructions and that it was safe to go, luckily the driver proceeded with a visual check back along the platform and saw the small hand of a five year old child sticking out from underneath the tube, the child had slipped unnoticed into the gap between platform and the tube.

And tell the poor cyclist that  the autonomous/semi autonomous Uber car technology that killed her had eliminated human error...

So when are actual situations 'ludicrous', do you read the news! 

You actually believe that I made these situations up?

Yes absolutely everything is ludicrous and fake news now!

I did not argue against the use of technology.  Technology is great! fantastic! amazing! however technology is only as good as the spec it is designed for and life gets in the way so systems fail, bombs go off, children fall under tubes, power fails, commuters get mugged, commuters collapse, so I would like someone in the train who is fully qualified to make rapid difficult decisions and to take control when systems fail, and I would like them to be really well paid.

That woman killed by the uber test car (what on earth are they doing testing software in a 2 tonne Volvo SUV?) was not missed by the software, it saw her. If it had been a human driver they would have gotten off scot free too. The only thing that "normalises" traffic flow at high speed and high density is the almost certain excusable death of any pedestrian foolish enough to wander into the road.

All they want with autonomous trains is to take away the drivers ability to say "no, I won't drive, you're not paying me enough". There will still be a person there on the trains I think.

... yes future roads will have a ban on pedestrians and on those pesky cyclists.

Many working class, hard working people see the train drivers as a selfish elite who hold the public to ransom with numerous strikes to gain more pay and fewer working hours. 

The drivers have one of the simplest jobs in London yet are paid very high salaries for about 33 working hours a week. 

Despite being in a very high paying job, with these short hours, the drivers persist with more strikes which cripple London and make life difficult for millions of low paid, working class people trying to get to work on time. 

As a result, it is better to have no troublesome train drivers and to let new technology control the movement of trains in a forward direction. 

I don't think it's speed. I've always assumed that the difference in travel time is related to the number of stops. If, for example, you take the journey from Finsbury Park to Green Park, the Piccadilly line makes ten stops, whereas the Victoria only makes six. 

Makes perfect sense. Average speed on the tube is reasonably constant, so the number of stops with approx 1-2min per stop can easily be the determining factor for journeys in excess of for example 2-4 stops...

Here's some more info from an FOI request:

Distance KMs & Unimpeded Run-time between Finsbury Park & Green Park

Piccadilly - 7.5 kms | 14 mins 13 secs

Victoria - 7.92 kms | 11 mins 47 secs

The Victoria line is 2 mins and 26 secs quicker

During rush hour the benefit of fewer stops is magnified. The Piccadilly line takes 18 mins exactly whilst the Victoria takes only  14 mins 15 secs. This makes the Victoria line 3 mins and 45 secs quicker.



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