Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Local traders fear Green Lanes is becoming a 'ghost town'
With complaints over high business rates, being charged for recycling and parking problems, the Londra Gazete report that local traders are very unhappy with the council's attitude and David Lammy's lack of response to their problems.
Read the full article here
Read the full article here
Tags for Forum Posts: Green Lanes, shops
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ElleCarumba on
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The guy in the last paragraph of the article seems to have the best idea- a great diversity of shops, including clothes shops. I buy food on Green Lanes but if I wanted to go "proper shopping", then it has nothing to offer. Great if you want a kebab but if you want to buy a decent, non tacky birthday card and gift, there is nowhere.
I think some of the businesses could probably improve their prospects if they upped their game a bit- the fish shop between Umfreville and Burgoyne has some decent produce but with next to no information about it - I've asked them what sort of fish an item was and they didn't know. It's frustrating because I think it would be a hit if they just learnt how to present themselves better,
An awful lot of the traders' complaints would presumably clash with what residents what- more parking on Green Lanes is not going to make the buses flow more freely and opening the barriers on Hermitage Road is unpopular with some residents too.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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The rates were high. It's good to see the shop owners have challenged these and ended up with lower costs. I don't think businesses should be charged for the recycling service, just the bags themselves.
Shop closures here reflect the current recessionary trend across the country, where in some areas it is far far worse than Green Lanes.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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If Haringey Planning Committee Labour Group ideals prevail, what they want on Green Lanes will be JD Sports, Macdonalds and another Betfair. Thats's what we'll get in Seven Sisters if the Grainger demolition 'regeneration' goes ahead.
Or maybe they will fulfill their obligation to consider race issues by substituting Paddy Power for Betfair.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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What happens on Green Lanes is critical to the health of our neighbourhood. It seems to have become in many ways a neighbourhood almost separate from its immediate catchment area. In my opinion, it needs to become more integrated with Harringay and more diverse. This almost certainly means a wider variety of shops serving the needs of the immediate local neighbourhood.
I puzzle long and hard about how a high street has become so separate from much of its population. It doesn't make sense. What seems clear to me however is that it will need traders and the council to work together to first establish if there's a will to change and then to move forward.
Here are some snippets of relevant info:
The first set comes from very recent experiences when a few weeks ago a woman contacted me via the site saying that she and a colleague were interested in setting up an organic cafe on Green Lanes. Keen to help, I offered to meet with them. In the weeks between our initial contact and our meeting they did their legwork around Green Lanes. When I met with them they were dispirited. They gave the following reasons:
1. Rents seemed surprisingly high. They'd said they'd that rents ranged from £22,000 to £25,000. At the same time they'd been offered a Crouch End shop for £18,000.
2. They said that the state of repair of the premises seemed poor or very poor.
3. They said that no one seemed particularly interested in then as tenants.
I think as a result they've turned to Harringay. pointed a finger at us and said "Harringay, you're fired!"
Now this information may be inaccurate or provide an incomplete picture; I'm just reporting what they said. It certainly warrants some fact checking and further understanding.
The second story come from about eighteen months ago when I found out that Haringey Council had just bought into a data analysis tool that allows very detailed demographic analysis showing a population's buying interests and habits in great detail. It can be fine tuned to an extraordinary degree of localness. I checked with the Council and they said that the traders would be welcome to access it. My thinking was that both traders and residents will win if the shops on Green Lanes are serving needs targeted at local people. I suggested to them that they make use of the data. I'm not aware that they've done so.
So there are two questions for me:
1. Who do the current traders of Green Lanes see as their current target market? And, if the targeting doesn't include all sections of the local population, would they be interested in widening it?
2. What will the Council do to encourage a more diverse Green Lanes? (It's worth noting here that the Harringay Charter that I'm still working on with the Council, will include this as part of its aims).
(Reposted from earlier to correct the impression I gave that I thought the cafe lady wanted to set up a cafe on Harringay Online!)
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Maybe you (or someone else) could talk to the Londra Gazette about this, particularly the high rents situation. Are there a few landlords only in Green Lanes holding up the rent rates? Are Turkish run businesses the largest section of the community along Green Lanes, or is this in fact a myth?
One of the largest minorities within local schools are the Turkish and therefore maybe Green Lanes business does reflect local customer needs.
Some businesses have certainly changed to reflect the changing socio-economics of the local population (eg. Bingols to Flame Restaurant). Other relatively new businesses to the area reflect this change (eg. Garden Ladder, Lemon Cafe, Mezzo etc). So maybe Green Lanes is changing after all and not in a bad way.
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When I talk about integration and diversity Matt, I mean diversity in all it senses - that's both serving a diverse community and serving a diversity of needs. So that means, as wide a group of people living here being able to meet as wide a scope of their shopping desires locally.
With regards to the community diversity aspect that you focus on, I'm sure Green Lanes reflects some of the community that lives here and that's great. My point is that it's not diverse and it doesn't reflect the diversity of the community. Serving "one of the largest minorities" is not the same as serving the whole community.
It's worth remembering too Matt that when HoL members were asked about the issue that concerned them in the survey a couple of years ago, the biggest priority for the commercial areas was the mix of shops on Green Lanes. This is an issue of local concern.
And I think before anybody speaks to anybody about anything as a result of the cafe story, the facts need checking. They're reported from a conversation. The person who told me is a site member. Perhaps she'll comment?
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Yes understand the meaning of diversity here Hugh. It's all very well HOL discussing a desire for a greater mix of shops on Green Lanes but it might be wise to involve the Turkish Cypriots within our community in this conversation who have a lot of businesses on Green Lanes. I'm sure they'd like to hear views from their local customer base as to what it is people are looking to spend our money on. The Londra article does point to shop owner's concerns about declining custom after all.
I know from the experience of the local school my children go to, that engaging communities directly produces fantastic positive results. Wishing from the sidelines for something to change doesn't work. Engagement can work.
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Of course Matt. I'm not sure why you assume that I wouldn't seek to involve all sections of our community.
I hope my story above about the traders gives you some indication of where I'm at with this. On top of what I mentioned above, I also helped the traders get £10,000 (or was it 5) to set up their website. This came about when I found out that the Crouch End Project was set up with Haringey Council money. So I spent some time tracking down the person from CEP and then the right person from Haringey Council to ask whether they'd give the traders of Harringay the same amount of money. I then connected the Harringay traders association with them. The result was the traders' website.
Continued engagement with the traders would be part of what the community does.
Of course we must involve the Turkish Cypriot community alongside all other sections of our community. Whilst HoL is not fully representative, I hope it'll be a start; we're not completely without diversity. It goes without saying that any meaningful community engagement should happen off-line as well as online and be wholly inclusive.
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