Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Local Representation Postponed?

Eons ago, before the mists of time, back at start of the year, it felt like we had some sort of functioning democracy in Harringay. It was by no means perfect and I've been critical of it in the past, but it was there and anyone who wanted to could have reasonable access.

Now, I'm starting to wonder what's happening. Our newly elected local representatives seem to be shunning open discussion on HoL, the GLSG dissolved itself, and now I've just received an email telling me:

The meeting of the Harringay and St. Ann’s Area Forum and Committee scheduled to take place on Monday 6^th October has been postponed and will be held in early November. I will write to you again in the near future to inform you of the new date once it has been fixed.

As I said, it was far from perfect before, but at least it was there and I felt that I had an ability to have some sort of discourse with our representatives. I haven't yet worked out how much I care or how much difference the change in the status quo will make, but I'm pretty sure it should matter greatly to me.

(I've hesitated before punching the publish button on this because I neither intend nor want it to be the catalyst for an all-out assault on our local politicians. So, should anyone be moved to respond, balanced considered thoughts only please.)

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on October 11, 2014 at 16:54

So, it's a "red mist trap" to get pissed-off about rubbish-strewn roads?

Where do you live, Chris? No litter down your street? In your neighbourhood no dumped mattresses, wooden pallets, old clothes, fridges, dog turds, unidentified liquids seeping from bags on the pavement? Week after week; month after month?

Well, good for you!

But please allow me and other people the right to protest. Loudly. And to insist that things do not need to be run like this.

And instead of you posting endless variations of the same pollyanna comments on HoL, you might instead follow the example of our neighbour and friend Martin Ball. I think you met him some time ago.

When Martin got involved in local campaigns he was much like you. Tended to think that councillors and council staff were basically decent, well-intentioned people. Who just wanted to do the right thing - but with limited resources. Positivity. And that progress could and would be made by engaging with them. By being reasonable. Showing and explaining to them what they were getting wrong; and what needed tweaking and changing.

Here's a link to Martin's latest comment piece in the Tottenham & Wood Green Journal. (Warning: It has lots of dirty pictures.) It's headed: "After a walk home like this, Haringey Council must stop being rubbish with rubbish".

Red Mist? Unnecessarily contentious? illogical? No. Martin's still positive and upbeat. But walking home he took the trouble to open his eyes and pull out his cameraphone.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on October 11, 2014 at 17:04

Having another bad day, Alan?

What I am saying is that HoL posters are quick to make nasty, unhelpful posts but do not do anything about the problem. There are not enough people like Martin!

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on October 11, 2014 at 17:10

"HoL posters are quick to make nasty, unhelpful posts"

"Having another bad day, Alan?"

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on October 11, 2014 at 17:11

There are not enough people like Martin!

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Permalink Reply by Liz on October 11, 2014 at 18:38

I'm not sure which 'HOL' posters you have in mind but in my experience many of those who protest on here also organise and try to do something to effect change. New initiatives this week look to form a Ladder RA and the Friends of Harringay Passage were very proud to win an award for neighbourhood improvement. Perhaps you should name the ones who annoy you so much, so we can assess their activism.

I generally see people who give credit where it is due (see recent approving posts supporting Cllr McNamara for Operation Cleanstreets) and asking probing questions such as why cllrs are avoiding updating us on Green Lanes works (after a letter to Claire Kober, Cllr Ryan has re-appeared) or why all of the 6 Harringay cllrs seem unusually quiet about the development of St Ann's.

As the saying goes, you are not stuck in traffic, you are the traffic. Similarly, if you posting on HOL, you are a HOL poster. A website is just a bit of software. Everyone has to work to set the tone, and as Alan has tried to point out, implying the 'HOL posters' are other to yourself and are nasty and unhelpful or answering poster with curmudgeonly comments about bad days sets the tone of the debate just as much as a post that suggests that some cllrs aren't exactly pulling their weight on local issues.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on October 11, 2014 at 18:52

I was careless in what I wrote and Alan misunderstood - I wasn't referring to him as nasty and genuinely thought he must be having a bad day as he seemed to be in attack mode.

I know there are lots of positives (which is why I post) but I don't know how to quantify the degree of anti-everything-council I read - it seems to me that it's the majority opinion here and I was trying to temper it with a bit of pull from the other direction.

Don't see much credit given to our new Cllrs Liz - the ones that have posted seem to me to have been treated shabbily where matters of opinion are invoked.

This thread is about why they don't post and, unless we change the tone and a few other things to make it worthwhile, I don't think they will for the next few years, will they? Isn't that why the MP's don't and probably won't before the next election either?

Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on October 12, 2014 at 17:36

My apologies Liz - I did not mean to be so negative or to cast aspersions. I don't want to give more prominence to the comments on HoL that led me to this - best I can do is to ignore them, behave properly myself and again express regret that I have, in trying to make things better, not done so.

Permalink Reply by Liz on October 11, 2014 at 19:22

No this thread isn't about why cllrs don't post. Look up at the top. It's about how we can have open discourse and accountability with our elected reps when they close down all avenues except email me @ which is fine for confidential casework but not for wider issues that affect the majority.

Every few years, political parties campaign on issues not on their record on solving casework but then seem reluctant to engage outside of election time ( with notable exceptions, Alan and Stuart and Zena - note that two of them are no longer cllrs). It is alarming that the imperfect area forum has been cancelled due apparently to a scheduling problem with a committee which as far as we could ascertain none of our cllrs were on and certainly not all 6 .This isn't usually a problem anyway as some of our cllrs in the past often failed to show for whatever reason.

You clearly have a drum to bang. Good luck with it. Hugh and I have tried for years to come up with a solution that creates an online space for democratic discussion. We have yet to convince our democratic reps to embrace any of our ideas (including an online element to Area Forum) . Perhaps you will do better as you are much closer to them than we can hope to be.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on October 11, 2014 at 20:02

What on earth has come over you lately, Chris? I'm afraid that on a balanced reading of HoL, I just don't recognise the picture you paint as accurate. Yes, there are intemperate posters, and I wish they would be more reasonable, but there is also plenty of constructive opinion too. We've been taking a bit of a tougher line of late to try and smooth out a few more bumps. Now you seem to have turned into the angry brigade. Calm down, Chris; angry posts that swipe about hitting out at others do nothing to help.