Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Local Parties dismiss voters' sense of place
Those of you who've been reading the posts on the site for a while will know that I hold strong views about our sense of place in Harringay..........well in any place really. Our sense of history's part of that, our sense of community is a part and our name is part.
Back in April 2008, Nilgun Canver offered the following:
Today Justin Hinchcliffe, Chair of the Tottenham Tories joined in on Twitter with a tweet apparently ridiculing a voter's wish to have her place of residence recognised as Harringay:
What is it with our politicians. Don't they get it. Many of us simply don't wish to have our area chopped up and repackaged to suit their notions of political entities or boundaries. We have the right to choose - not you.
Are there any other representatives from the local blues and reds who'd care to share their views on this issue? And what of the local Liberals. We've heard nothing from you on this. We'd welcome hearing what you think.
Let me leave the last word to Thomas Burke, writing in 1921:
(See my posting in the history group for more on Burke)
Back in April 2008, Nilgun Canver offered the following:
We've discussed and we have agreed to call the area Harringay Green Lanes and Too much emphasis on Harringay confuses everyone with the borough Haringey and I’m afraid it refers to the Harringay ward and excludes the Gardens and other target areas.
Today Justin Hinchcliffe, Chair of the Tottenham Tories joined in on Twitter with a tweet apparently ridiculing a voter's wish to have her place of residence recognised as Harringay:
What is it with our politicians. Don't they get it. Many of us simply don't wish to have our area chopped up and repackaged to suit their notions of political entities or boundaries. We have the right to choose - not you.
Are there any other representatives from the local blues and reds who'd care to share their views on this issue? And what of the local Liberals. We've heard nothing from you on this. We'd welcome hearing what you think.
Let me leave the last word to Thomas Burke, writing in 1921:
But do you think the inhabitants of those villas will rank themselves with those of Tottenham or Hornsey? Not likely. They are of Harringay. The guide-book was right: it is a suburb with a distinct individuality of its own.
Proud of its lineage, proud of its appearance in thirteenth-century records, it declines to surrender its identity to those who claim lordship over it. Before Tottenham and Hornsey were, Harringay was so often mentioned in ancient documents as to receive the honour of being spelt in six different ways - sure proof of importance. Indeed, the name Hornsey came into currency only through a corruption of Haringhea and Haringey; and it is therefore fit that the stout fellows of Harringay should defend the style and identity of their venerable village from the encroachments of that modern upstart Hornsey.
(See my posting in the history group for more on Burke)
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay name
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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David, a thoughtful contribution. (Though we'll have to agree to differ on some of the practical examples you list! )
You raise what I take to be the underlying issues here - localism and how a sense of place and local pride can be positive and empowering. As you say, this can complement overlapping and wider loyalties.
But there is another side to the localism coin. Inevitably there are issues about equity and inequality which should be honestly debated and tackled. Localism and local pride has its potential dangers. It can become nimbyism. It can descend into 'pork barrel' politics. Neither national nor local government should be about greasing the squeaky wheels; nor handing out public money and assets to favoured groups, companies or localities.
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Permalink Reply by David Schmitz on
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Alan,
Thank you for your kind words.
I agree that there is a balance to be struck between the need for communities to have sufficient autonomy to enable them to thrive and the need for central direction to ensure the maintenance of basic standards and the protection of the common good, both nationally and internationally.
My view, however, is that successive Conservative and Labour governments (and especially their Chancellors of the Exchequer, particularly from Lawson to Brown) have been getting the balance wrong and have erred in the direction of micromanagement from the centre.
By the same token, I regard the present Council as having been insensitive to the needs of the various communities which exist within its boundaries.
In the months ahead, all of this will provide for useful discussion on which the voters will eventually decide.
For now, though, I'm glad that we both seem to agree that the Harringay community is a good thing and that there is such a thing as society.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Nimbyism is 'Costing the Earth'
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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nor handing out public money and assets to favoured groups
Alan, do you mean organisations like the GRA and the friends of Priory park? Surely fantastic examples of how the articulate and well organised can get a better share of the pie presumably at the cost of others.
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Republic of North Harringay
We hereby announce (on a whim) that North Harringay has been declared a Republic, just because, well ... we can. All residents need only pay one local tax from now on, monies of which will be dedicated to the Republic of North Harringay. Please put monies in small brown envelope addressed to RepNH and pop into postbox on Falkland Rd. Thank you.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Hinchcliffe on
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Love it. You're a funny man!
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The committee of the Republic of NH have had there first meeting. All border police to get new kit. New currency still to be decided but someone suggested these. Not sure how long new currency would last. Other ideas welcome.
Further updates soon.
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The Republic is only a few hours old and already we've had to re-draw the map thanks to an unsanctioned dawn raid on the 1st floor of the Salisbury building. It's now the HQ of the Republic of North Harringay, drinks have kindly been served by a well known landlord nearby and a bewildered Paul Simon estate agent has been told to rid the Republic of all 'for sale' & 'to let' signs or face action from the Housing Committee.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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This is beginning to resemble the disputes over which end to open a boiled egg (he said Swiftly ) I'm a Big Endian myself.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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I'm not sure what you mean by class warfare Tom. A careful reading of this suggests that only one person has openly mentioned class in the form of pops at Guardian readers and the chattering classes which is stereotyping and if I may say a classic example of attacking the person rather than engaging with the ideas.
Where have the contributors posted 'offensive stereotypical rubbish about Tories' ? I am unclear what you picked up on in that vein. The point made by Tim was that names don't matter, do you feel that he was given a harder time because he is a declared Tory? Would the posters have let it pass if it had come from Lab or Lib Dem councillors? I'm not so sure.
Tim is a declared candidate for the ward of Harringay and, as such, he has much to gain from coming on the site and engaging directly with locals on issues, including those around identity, community and civic pride. His party are very much focused on it at a national level and committed to 'localism'. At a local level, the comments of his party leader posted earlier are of great interest to us and reflect ideas bandied about on here about accountability. The question is will Dave actually deliver to us the people such powers to decide if he takes office?
And if the chair of the Tottenham Tories posts in an open forum like Twitter under the name Tottenham Tories comments that suggest they are not sympathetic to such notions of community then we have a right to debate them. They are hardly the underdogs here if poll predictions are anything to go by.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Tom, Labour has been challenged here about the same issue with complete even-handedness. This isn't a party issue as far as I'm concerned.
If you feel the effect of name changing is mocking. Then that's the whole point of this thread - how it makes people feel. Point made.
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I'm not clear where you have seen such comments on the site and if they exist, I'm surprised that Justin hasn't taken up the cudgel about them.
Fair enough, if people descend to cheap points scoring on a level of Tory Toffs then pull them up about it.
On your second point, Hugh has answered it below re the name thing which appears to be what you are finding objectionable. I simply can't agree that the other parties don't get the same scrutiny. I can point you to posts where local Lib Dems have been pulled up about campaign literature, and local Labour councillors have been held up and found very wanting by contributors.
At least Tim is here and willing to take part. That's a brownie point in his favour.
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