Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Local Parties dismiss voters' sense of place
Those of you who've been reading the posts on the site for a while will know that I hold strong views about our sense of place in Harringay..........well in any place really. Our sense of history's part of that, our sense of community is a part and our name is part.
Back in April 2008, Nilgun Canver offered the following:
Today Justin Hinchcliffe, Chair of the Tottenham Tories joined in on Twitter with a tweet apparently ridiculing a voter's wish to have her place of residence recognised as Harringay:
What is it with our politicians. Don't they get it. Many of us simply don't wish to have our area chopped up and repackaged to suit their notions of political entities or boundaries. We have the right to choose - not you.
Are there any other representatives from the local blues and reds who'd care to share their views on this issue? And what of the local Liberals. We've heard nothing from you on this. We'd welcome hearing what you think.
Let me leave the last word to Thomas Burke, writing in 1921:
(See my posting in the history group for more on Burke)
Back in April 2008, Nilgun Canver offered the following:
We've discussed and we have agreed to call the area Harringay Green Lanes and Too much emphasis on Harringay confuses everyone with the borough Haringey and I’m afraid it refers to the Harringay ward and excludes the Gardens and other target areas.
Today Justin Hinchcliffe, Chair of the Tottenham Tories joined in on Twitter with a tweet apparently ridiculing a voter's wish to have her place of residence recognised as Harringay:
What is it with our politicians. Don't they get it. Many of us simply don't wish to have our area chopped up and repackaged to suit their notions of political entities or boundaries. We have the right to choose - not you.
Are there any other representatives from the local blues and reds who'd care to share their views on this issue? And what of the local Liberals. We've heard nothing from you on this. We'd welcome hearing what you think.
Let me leave the last word to Thomas Burke, writing in 1921:
But do you think the inhabitants of those villas will rank themselves with those of Tottenham or Hornsey? Not likely. They are of Harringay. The guide-book was right: it is a suburb with a distinct individuality of its own.
Proud of its lineage, proud of its appearance in thirteenth-century records, it declines to surrender its identity to those who claim lordship over it. Before Tottenham and Hornsey were, Harringay was so often mentioned in ancient documents as to receive the honour of being spelt in six different ways - sure proof of importance. Indeed, the name Hornsey came into currency only through a corruption of Haringhea and Haringey; and it is therefore fit that the stout fellows of Harringay should defend the style and identity of their venerable village from the encroachments of that modern upstart Hornsey.
(See my posting in the history group for more on Burke)
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay name
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Justin Hinchcliffe on
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You do, actually, get literature. we've delivered the ward twice in the last year.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Tim and Justin, please just take a step back and ask not if you're right or wrong in the debate, but take a moment to reflect on how your responses might be coming across.
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Permalink Reply by PaulG on
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Tim
There is a function to start different discussions. Posting a lengthy reply complaining about a thread others are enjoying adding to is, I would suggest, not the right way to do it!
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Can I just say that when I read Justin's tweet it made me smile? I had an image in my head of poor old Justin doorstepping some little old lady who shoed him away back to Tottenham with her broom. Whatever!
@Justin I really hope you don't get told off by Tory High Command for this one.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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To be honest John, I felt the same. My first thought was well done St Ann's voter for sticking up for Harringay where we had a festival recently which celebrated our neighbourhood and where the best contributions came from the Gardens RA who put their all into it.
Just as matter of interest here is a quote from David Cameron in 2009:
"We will put more power in the hands of local people and make councillors more accountable to their citizens. We want people to be able to see clearly, and exercise real influence over, what their elected representatives are doing with the power they are trusted with"
That should surely include respecting the natural boundaries of a neighbourhood as defined by local people?
If two wards' (artificially created to suit bureacracy) councillors work to the common good of a clearly defined and proud neighbourhood then they are being what they are intended to be: community champions and elected representatives of the people, please check in your dogma and party politics at the borders (this means all cllrs not just the blue rosetted ones) and listen
Oh and Tim, if you want to talk about litter, I'm right here ready to hear your solutions.
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I have to say, Liz, people never used to get so pre-occupied about where they lived on THE LADDER and GARDENS; the only people, now, who seem to do so are the chattering-classes who, probably, read the Guardian. Boundaries can change (Hugh himself has changed his own boundaries of Harringay TWICE in the last year – making a nonsense of boundaries (if they can change, who can change them, how and when?). If he can, so can others. See my point? I could say, as a White Hart Lane resident, I lived in "East Hampstead". That doesn't make it right or correct, does it? Of course not! My response to THAT voter ("whatever") meant I didn't care - either way - to where she lived. I’m ambivalent because of the above reasons.
You have to agree, that there are some people in "Harringay" who, upon being told that they live in the Tottenham constituency, are horrified. Why's that, if it's not snootiness?
Maybe we ought to have a referendum to decide whether Harringay’s in Tottenham or Hornsey? If you like that idea, write to the Boundary Commission.
And finally, although I know and love Harringay (the Ladder/Gardens etc) how does it have a different community spirit/feel to, say, west Green or Seven Sisters?
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You are talking about political boundaries for Westminster. Big lines drawn on maps and often re drawn to suit whichever party is in power at the time without reference or referenda to the people who live there.
We are talking about neighbourhoods. Places with an identity and a history and a collective memory that binds them together. These places are grassroots and instinctive. Your party has shown through recent documentation that they understand this principle.
Why this obsession with class? References to chattering classes and Guardian readers? It's meaningless. You have some interesting ideas, J, but don't bury them under pointless jibes about people's backgrounds, especially as you haven't met me (yet)
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Liz, to be fair, its not just Justin who might have an obsession with class: its a British obsession and it puzzles foreigners (I speak as a non British-born immigrant).
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Yes, true Clive but I do find it frustrating when trying to talk about things that are of great interest to me, such as this, to have to wade through all the 'you're just a trendy lefty, sandal wearing organic bean eater' to get to the point of what people are saying. It tends to put me off and make me not want to listen to people any more. It's just tabloid speak and as such adds little to the debate.
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Yes, we should all try to avoid ad hominem [<–N.B. correct spelling this time!] argument as far as possible as it doesn't get us anywhere. Most people like to be assessed or thought of as an individual and not merely or solely as a member of a particular class or group (even organic-vegans might have a point or two I could agree with. %).
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Hugh wasn't talking about political boundaries for Westminster (or indeed Haringey) when he said he had twice changed his mind in the last year alone and altered them accordingly.
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Let's be clear on what "changing my mind" was all about.
In 2007, I came out of nowhere, had the cheek to set up a website and even further then had the gall to draw boundaries around what I thought was Harringay. Adjusting those boundaries from that first initial stab was part of developing a shared sense of a commonly agreed neighbourhood.
Is that what you call "changing my mind" or taking an open and collaborative approach, Justin? Being open to others' views has a great deal to recommend it. So, yes this lady's most certainly for turning when turning means getting it right, and has no shame about it.
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