Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Is 'Bin Alley' the best solution for our recycling?
Is this really the only solution?
Tags for Forum Posts: new recycling bins, veolia
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Parts of Edinburgh utilize what they call Communal rubbish containers, although not everyone rates them.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Great idea!? My understanding is that rubbish dumped on the street cannot be recycled. Leaving it there also risks a fine.
It's what I've called The Third System. In effect, it is a 24/7 collection of waste. Often by people who think they are somehow helping the Council by leaving bags next to litter bins.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by Friedrich Ernst on
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I agree Alan but the whole rubbish collection concept is a mess!Why we was not ask before?Why the Council lost the change to bring the community together(Bin sharing etc.),why simple steps like made stickers for the bins shown the collection days was not taken?Who read leaflets this day's?The company who collects the rubbish is not very community friendly!For the LordshipLane Rec.Festival the ask for £1250 to collect rubbish,a festival who needs support and not a other bill!Cut 1/3 of his Workforce and so on.A politic I aspect from a conservativ Council and not from Labour!
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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Hi Alan, I'm a little disappointed with that reply, you've just said on this thread that we should have the curiosity to examine different possible solutions, I'd hope that you can see this is just that, a different possible solution which is worth experimenting with.
And i think you've misunderstood it. Firstly its not for recycling waste, there are plenty of public recycling banks around here for that. This is also not your "Third System" and its not fly tipping so you wont be fined, because its not just dumping rubbish randomly. This is using the standard Council provided timed collections for residents where wheelie bins don't work. Its using the Council defined locations, which i listed earlier, and using the Council defined procedure which was at the link i posted earlier but to be clear i'll copy in here:
Black sacks are recommended, but residents can use any type of bag that they choose except clear sacks, which are used for recycling collections. Do not overfill sacks, and make sure that they are securely tied up so that the contents do not spill. If throwing away any sharp objects like broken glass, please make sure they are well wrapped in newspaper to prevent the sacks from being pierced and ripped, and to protect the collection crews from injury. sacks should either be put out at the designated location, or presented beside the kerb. Please do not obstruct the roadway or pavement.
See: http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/environment_and_transport/refuse-r...
Harringay is a bit unique in its layout which makes doing this practical here, and so one of the potential solutions which could help make this new rubbish system more tolerable to residents. You're on the Environment and Housing Scrutiny Panel review which is supposed to be helping sort this mess out so its a shame to see you dismiss it so quickly. This could really help, what better alternatives do you have to help fix overflowing bins and weeks old rotting nappies stinking up our streets?
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I accept your criticism, Ant. I should have made clear that my call for problem-solving accepts the overall constraint of a need for society to recycle more and reduce waste.
I may have misunderstood your proposal. But I'm still unclear about it. My "Third System" lies between: (1) collection from homes and businesses; and (2) "Bring sites" where you can take general waste and recycling.
To be frank, I'd prefer there didn't have to be a kerbside collection from outside shops or flats above them. I don't want to walk through piles of waste on shopping streets and I'd guess that many other people aren't enthusiastic about it either.
But limited timed waste collections seems to be a least worst option for flats above shops. And my understanding is that the link you give refers to these homes over shops in main roads. So yes, if you live in a flat above a shop there will be a variation in the arrangements including daily/twice daily collections.
How I read (misread?) your postings is a suggestion you and anyone else who lives in the residential roads on the Ladder or Gardens roads should have the option (or perhaps be encouraged?) to walk a few hundred metres to the shops on Green Lanes and leave a black bag on the curb for the twice daily collection.
You're right that this isn't the same as people who leave rubbish anywhere and expect Veolia to find and clear it; from streets, alleys, and patches of open ground.
However, my observations over the years seem to suggest that the Third System is a continuum between a kerbside collection for flats above shops and a complete free-for-all. Once we get bags legitimately left on the street - including Veolia's purple bags - they seem to act as a magnet for dumping - modelling and legitimating other street dumping.
So bags and other rubbish outside shops spread into the so-called head-roads - the first few metres along adjacent residential streets.
Or it's tucked next to a litter bin.
Or a phone cabinet. Or in a corner next to a school gate.
There's almost a kind of 'neatness' at work. Bottles and cans are left inside wire treeguards.
Litter ends up in flowerbeds or street planters. Or stuck in hedges.
Incidentally I'm not dismissing the idea of large wastebins. Athough there are sometimes intended consequences which need planning for. It's not too hard now to find homeless people going through food bins. At one point a butchers near us had to lock their bins because discarded meat was being removed - and not just for pets.
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Alan, no one is proposing that Harringay residents use the timed collection points as a free for all dumping ground so your arguments and photos of dumping and fly tipping is a total strawman, i expect a higher standard of debate from a councillor.
We've real problems with the new rubbish system here. The proliferation of bins, unsightly overflowing bins, and the stench of rotting rubbish has a seriously damaged our neighbourhood. Using the existing twice daily timed collection points as a type of safety net or overflow valve will really help.
Think about just nappies for a moment: if the current situation was that people with nappies everyday bagged them up and put them at the timed collection points where they're almost immediately collected, that would:
1) have no significant impact on the look and feel of the streetscape compared with with the existing timed collection point usage2) if you were then proposing that we stop doing that and instead store them up to fester and stink in the front gardens of residential streets for two weeks at a time people would think you were being disgusting and ridiculous
Thats the system you are defending.
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Permalink Reply by Hugo Read on
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Hello Alan,
Forgetting the end of the road collections for a minute, an argument I'm not going to join, I was interested to hear what other solutions you might have offer instead to fix the farce we are all being subjected to. It was a shame not to see suggestions for other possible solutions in your above post. What do you think about the absurdity of the bin park that the ladder has been transformed into by the rolling out of this new and ridiculous system? One house divided into two flats? Four bins. Three flats? Six bins. It's time the Council held up their heads and admitted this has all gone disastrously wrong and come up with an emergency plan to sort it out to the residents' satisfaction. Things like smaller bins by default (I've swapped both mine, but it was a truly tortuous process, being 'interviewed' by someone from the council to see if I 'qualify' for smaller bins) and bin sharing for houses divided into flats. None of this was considered at roll-out, when vast quantities of these huge bins were just dumped into people's front gardens without asking their preferences. This huge and awful joke needs sorting now before the whole area turns into a bin slum. It's total madness.
Hugo.
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Permalink Reply by JJ B on
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Wow! You've actually come up with simple logical proposals! How come our lovely Haringey Council didn't?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? DO WE NEED VIOLENT REVOLT BEFROE THEY LISTEN?
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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But some people/residents might want their own two bins... especially if their neighbours fill up the bins with filthy stuff and there is no room left for their rubbish... big or small, some folks might not object to all these bins which is something that seemed to be ruled out here.
There should be a bin referendum with all the possible options listed and then everyone asked to tick and return to the council. Those who cant be bothered to respond have to put up with the results and the system. Probably should have been a bin referendum before all this was rolled out...
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Just noticed the council has been helpful for once and made this even easier by putting up shiny new signs at these timed collection points so they are easy to find -
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Ant, it seemed to me you were previously making two main points.
Was it reasonable to ask people to store stinking disposable nappies in bins in their front gardens for up to a fortnight? I thought that was a fair question and deserved a fair answer.
You also seemed to be suggesting that the solution was for people living in homes in the residential streets on the Ladder and Gardens to bring their waste down the roads and leave it on the pavement outside homes and shops in Green Lanes which have timed bag collections because they have nowhere to store their waste.
But you told me I'd got this wrong. You wrote that: "No one is proposing that Harringay residents use the timed collection points as a free for all dumping ground so [my] arguments and photos of dumping and fly tipping is a total strawman."
So please clarify for me - and more importantly for your neighbours who live in rooms and flats above shops, and for the traders running businesses in Green Lanes - what exactly are you proposing?
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Hello Alan,
As per my previous post: forgetting the end of the road collections for a minute, an argument I'm not going to join, instead of hearing from you what you don't like about any offered alternative, I'd be much more interested to hear what other solutions you might have offer instead to fix the farce we are all being subjected to? It's a shame not to see positive suggestions for other possible solutions in your posts on this topic, instead of just negative criticism of other people's ideas. So what do you think about the absurdity of the bin park that the ladder has been transformed into by the rolling out of this new and ridiculous system? I'm not talking about smelly bins and collections here, I'm talking about the subject of the post, which is the ludicrous and completely inappropriate quantity of bins that have been dumped on people's properties.
One house divided into two flats? Four bins. Three flats? Six bins! It's time the Council held up their heads and admitted this has all gone disastrously wrong and come up with an emergency plan to sort it out to the residents' satisfaction. Things like smaller bins by default (I've swapped both mine, but it was a truly tortuous process, being 'interviewed' by someone from the council to see if I 'qualify' for smaller bins) and bin sharing for houses divided into flats. None of this was considered at roll-out, when vast quantities of these huge bins were just dumped into people's front gardens without asking their preferences. This huge and awful joke needs sorting now before the whole area turns into a bin slum. It's total madness.
Hugo.
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