Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
'illegal' HMO - what to do (apart from informing council)?
Hi,
we've had issues with our neighbouring house. It's got some history with changing ownership and squatters. To cut the long story short: The new owner has put in 10 bedsits. It's a 5 bedroom house, he didn't have planning permission (also hasn't applied yet) nor a license to run it as a HMO. The refurbishment works are a disgrace: The house seriously needed an overhaul, but he has just painted the rooms and put some partitions in. Not to mention that the garden is severely overgrown. Plus there were some issues with the builders (living on the premises) pretty much worked when they wanted, starting to drill at 8.15pm on a Sunday or BH etc. There is huge pile of rubbish dumped in the front yard. This Monday the first tenant seems to have moved in which is about 10 days after they started the refurbishment works.
We (and others) have made a complaint re the noise, but more importantly re the missing planning permission last week. We received an acknowledgement letter that someone would get back to us within 3 weeks. I then called the enforcement officer dealing with the issue. He explained to me that he visited the house this Mon, but no answer. He then wrote to the owner who has the right to either make sure the house is vacated or apply for planning permission within 3 weeks. The officer told me he 'might as well get planning permission'. If he doesn't comply he might face criminal conviction. He also informed me the that the front yard has to be cleared (Section 251 or so). Planning is not responsible for the license, but he has referred to a different section in the housing dept re this.
To be honest, I'm a bit baffled by the response. The owner is quite obviously abusing the situation that there is a housing shortage in London, letting small rooms without proper walls in a house that needs refurbishing for £150 per week. However there seems to be no law that lets the planning dept close down the house for the time being. He can move in more and more people and await for his planning application to go through or not. Either way he has made heaps of money in the meantime and doesn't even get a fine, even if the planning permission doesn't go through and he doesn't comply with the conditions of the license (which I can't see that he does at present). Does anyone have experience in this and what more can be done apart from reporting it to the council? There is several neighbours here concerned and we've just had the first loud row yesterday. One neighbour also suggested he would report this to the civic society Tottenham. Any other suggestions? Would Councillors be responsible and could we approach them (we're not British citizen, but belong to the Commonwealth in case that matters.)
Thanks
Tags for Forum Posts: squatters
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Good news - if you know what I mean!
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Permalink Reply by Tina S on
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Ok, done some more work on this now.
I alerted Councillor Diakides who kindly agreed to follow up.
I also spoke to the residential departement who confirmed that a license is needed once more than 5 people have moved in (which is not yet the case if you don't count the builders living there, but will certainly be the case if it goes according to landlord's plans.). They will let planning take the lead so it's a waiting game at the moment for the response from the landlord.
Also spoke to fire brigade. They won't do anything and advised to alert council.
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Permalink Reply by Hugo Read on
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Haringey have demarcated two zones, one in the Harringay Ward and one in Tottenham where "Additional HMO Licensing" applies, with a stricter definition than the national one.
This means they define an HMO in the Ladder as being any house (however many stories) that has more than two 'families' living there. A 'family' is any individual in a shared house. Even if they share one kitchen and bathroom and don't have locks on their doors, if they are friends sharing and they're not one 'family' then the house in this zone is considered an HMO. Any qualifying property has to apply to Haringey for an HMO license, which they may or may not get. Even if they do get it, they will have to do loads of remedial work to make the property acceptable. Or they may simply turn it town, which would mean in theory the landlord would have to re-convert it back to a house.
The thing to do is simple, dob them in to the Council. Contact Glayne Russell on Glayne.Russell@haringey.gov.uk and that will start the ball rolling.
Here's more info here....
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/housing-and-planning/housing/landlords/m...
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Many thanks, Hugo. As clarified above the do need a license (once 6 people moved in; so far 3 people have moved in) and I did speak to the council already.
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Hi again,
I just wanted to give an update and thought maybe someone can give us some more advice.
The council didn't reply to our enquiry by the deadline indicated in the holding letter. Neither have I received a response from the councillor I contacted. I've now chased up both.
In the meantime we've experienced issues with rubbish being dumped in the forecourt. Of course the 2 bins don't come anywhere near enough for the rubbish created. We've reported it to the waste division and it was removed once, however is a recurring problem. Infestation is starting; foxes are roaming around and there are health and safety issues when my 2 little children managed to escape to the forecourt next door (there's no barrier to ours) on the odd occasion. Broken glass, vermin, foxes, dumped clothes, suitcase, food leftovers, no rubbish separation at all.
Furthermore we see all kind of seedy people around the property. A neighbour believes to have seen a dealer delivering drugs to the house. A parcel was dropped of to number 3 by the post man and cannot be found now - surprise, surprise.
The response the planning department have given is:
-they query that there is an issue with rubbish (I've even attached pictures but the enforcement officer stated that the rubbish was 'cleared up' when he visited. No surprise - this was shortly after it's been cleared up following me reporting it.)
-they've arranged to meet with the landlord on 16 Nov (I've made the complaint at the beginning of Sept - since they've visited once with no entry.). The landlord explained to them he can't make it earlier due to living outside London. The fact is that he visits weekly to we believe pick up the rent in cash. He was here end of last week and even spoke to us on several days.
-the landlord states there's one family living in the property. My husband went there 3 times over the last weeks to get the parcel back. According to one of the tenants, there's over 10 people now in the property. They're all in their 20s and 30s I suspect. That must either be a family with loads of multiple births or loads of cousins! Funny enough this tenant didn't seem to even know his relatives!
The enforcement officer is now planning to make an 'internal investigation' about the landlord. I'm not quite sure what he means by this. If he means what I assume (ie looking into the landlord's registers and if there were issues with other properties he owns) why hasn't he done so before? I've queried if he couldn't do an unannounced visit. Does he have powers to do so?
Does anyone have experiences about the time frames such complaints need to be dealt with? And how can they be escalated (the enforcement officer didn't respond to this question). I'm just quite surprised as I work for another London Borough and we take complaints and the attached response times extremely serious.
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And yet another update: there's now 15 (!) tenants in the 5 bed property. And the cealing is coming down - right next to the wall facing our property.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Which probably means water has got in - from roof? - and will be getting into the linked space above the ceiling with yours. Whoever owns the house will have to pay for your repairs. Write them a warning letter now.
(Just had a new ceiling of my own, after leak from upstairs. Took two months, everything into storage, and no idea what it cost my insurers but it would have been a lot. If he (the landlord) is negligent, he wont be insured.)
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Just found this which is answering some questions about the complaints process:
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/planning_enfor...
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Permalink Reply by Mavic Starfish on
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Hi all, just had this response from the council regarding a query about a HMO.
Your enquiry has been forwarded to me. It may be that the property does not require a licence. Could you tell me how many storeys it is?
does anyone know whether the number of floors is relevant to the definition of a HMO? I've checked this link and can't see anything Communities and Local Government website (external link).
Thanks
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Three or more storeys - see http://www.nationalhmonetwork.com/hmo-licensing-what.php which may be a useful resource even though it's the 'other end of the telescope'.
Be alert to concealed basements (visible only from the rear) and attic extensions using rooflights only, hard to see from ground level.....
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I page two of the guide it says that licensing is mandatory for dwellings in properties of three storeys or more but local authorities have discretion to require licences for dwellings falling outside of this definition. Bit lazy of the officer to ask. They could check from their records if it's in a designated area I think (or give you a quick call)
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Thanks Gordon/ Michael - lazy indeed, which is why I bounced the definition I found back to him, no reply as yet, although the initial reply confirmed that it wasn't licensed at present. i will follow up with the answers above as the house is indeed 3 storeys - attic conversion 2012- so it will have to be licensed. I know the council approved the original loft conversion so I do wonder why they couldn't follow up with the license at the time?
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