Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Homeless Man at Harringay Green Lanes station
Tags for Forum Posts: homelessness
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh D on
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We're living in a world where people with money somehow feel they're the ones suffering when they have to be confronted with those whose lives haven't worked out in the same way. Disgusting. The Dead Kennedys were spot on about what some folk really think way back in the mid-1980s. Plus ca change.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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There is sometimes a couple there under the bridge or used to be. They appeared often to be drunk and clearly in need of some help on that front.
There is now a regular 'pitch' by Barclays bank cashpoints which has been frequented by around 3-4 different people over the course of the past year. Some of the earlier ones, younger people, may have moved on elsewhere or found housing. Hard to say. I've heard various languages spoken by these itinerant rough sleepers indicating some who come looking for something better here don't find it.
They will each have their own story and why they are there. At one time there were 4 homeless/beggars between Barclays and Homebase. Sign of the times? The issues are complex- wishing them not to be there in our faces is wrong but so is simply to patronise them or to condemn those that are uncomfortable with this situation.
I don't know the answer but clearly as more people come to London seeking a better life, more will end up on the street. I expect we'll have Syrian, Afgahnis and others soon including those who don't get their residency status agreed. They are often just left to wander around.
So it's good to have this discussion even if answers/solutions are hard to fathom out. It's a shame that those we are talking about don't have a voice here so we can understand better the whys and wherefores….
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You have an extremely abrupt and bolshy tone. I worked hard for my money. I left home at 18 with nothing but the clothes on my back. If I look affluent why should I be targeted by those people who think I should share my wealth with them? I'm not the welfare state.
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I don't think we are talking about the same man btw. He was a tall bald man with eyeballs the size of dinner plates. He was rude and agressive and he genuinely frightened me.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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The Harringay McDonald's has quite a few single, homeless, men in the wee small hours trying to get ten minutes sleep before they're moved on by staff.
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accommodation for homeless people is in very short supply. Your 'compassion' may just have him moved out of sight where you won't be offended.
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Why is it that you do you not want to have to encounter them? The usual reasons one hears are inconvenience, perceived danger, reminder of own privilege and associated guilt and so on and so forth - but they seem to me trivial in comparison with this man's situation. What could be so urgent as a passer by that your need becomes greater than his agency as a human? To 'move him on' seems to strip him of his agency and dehumanize him.
As others have mentioned it is very possible the council simply don't have space to accommodate him.
Re professional begging - as Betty has mentioned, if he is a single childless man with no recourse to public funds he may have very little option. The 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps' approach is tricky if you don't have the resources (be they skills, self-belief, aspiration, internet access to apply for jobs, a suit or a shower for an interview....). What would you have him do?
On the acknowledgement from the council - if it is an auto-response then it is hardly worth having. If it is not an auto-response then perhaps the delay is that he is a person and not dumped rubbish or other routine issue.
On the point in the comments about what he chooses to spend money on - if I had a couple of quid and was sleeping on the street in the middle of winter would I join the guy who spent it on alcohol if it stopped me feeling the cold that night? Probably. Or if I had nightmares because of the things I'd seen and there was something that provided me with an escape. I understand the guy that said that when he was on the streets and had nothing to fill his day that rolling a fag became a ritual mark the times of day. I don't think it is appropriate for me to act as moral arbiter over someone who has nothing while I sit here on my sofa, in my sitting room, using my laptop, eating my dinner etc. Your money your choice of course. But if giving money is to give one gift, maybe that is doubled by giving freely and also giving respect for his autonomy as a person. Which might be pretty rare for him.
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He can choose to spend "his" money on anything he likes. But if he wants my money I want to know where it's going. I don't see how perpetuating a self-destructive course of action is compassionate. Maybe drinking himself into a stupor might get him through a cold night but it's not going to help him in the long run.
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Permalink Reply by Cat on
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Fantastic response, thank you. I work in homelessness and it is a hugely complex issue. Regarding the use of alcohol, I know of someone who, when out on the streets, drank "enough so it doesn't hurt when they kick me." People are wilfully blind to the humanity of others at times, and substance misuse in itself it complicated even for those with a safe place to sleep and access to support. It makes me sad that an aspect such as this is enough to turn individuals against a human being in need.
Ignorance and misunderstanding are no excuse for lacking compassion. Or rather, they shouldn't be.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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What can we as individuals do about it? What should we do? I've had other people who work in homelessness say we shouldn't give beggars money - do you agree?
I buy the Big Issue whenever I can because I feel like I can see where the money is going - the seller is working hard for that money and moving towards a more stable life. I've lost track of my favourite seller - he was living in a horrible hostel in KX but was so happy for me when I told him I was moving into my first real home. I still wonder how he is getting along.
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