Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Help. Nuisance noisy neighbours
Hello there, asking in the forum if anyone has had similar problems and if you can help us with any advise. Please.
We have been living in the ladder for the last 4 years, renting a ground floor flat in a converted house in Seymour Rd.
Unfortunately, in September last year the upstairs tenants left and new tenants arrived. That is when our nightmares began.
We are talking about two guys probably in their 20s possibly without a job (which makes you wonder what kind of background check was carried out by the Agency). They never or rarely leave the flat during the day, sleeping in the afternoon and spending all night producing electronic music usually between 1am and 7am in the morning. With producing music i mean they have actually built a music studio in the room above our master bedroom with electic piano, electric drum, syntetizer etc.... Obviously the house has no kind of insulation between floors so we are supposed to sleep inside a music studio.
To make things worse, I have reasons to believe that they main source of income is actually selling drugs. They don't even hide when they smoke weed in the common area entrance, there is always smell coming from upstairs and every night there is back and forth of less than recommendable people visiting and leaving the place (friends?). Obviously I cannot prove this or call the police for this (or should I?)
You wouldn't even want to deal with such people, but we tried our best politely communicating with them.
We have tried to be reasable, asking gently and expalining the situation with the noise, and the impossibility and lack of sleep, but apart from trying to keep their music at slightly lower volume they have not changed their habit.
We asked to move their recording studio in another room, they didn't.
We tried to ask to change their schedule, playing music during the day (even if we also work from home) and they didn't.
We contacted the agency managing both our and their property and the agency TOLD US TO LEAVE! Yes you heard that right.
We asked the agency to give us the contact details of their and our landlord (which owns both flats) they refused. Even though by law they cannot refuse (section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985). To be fair I haven't sent them a letter, but only called them so far.
We believe to have the landlord address from the "Gas safety check", but I don't know if it is a good idea to go to their doorstep unattended. They are probably not aware of the situation.
We contacted multiple times the police (also in one occasion when there was a night party upstairs) and the police told us that they cannot do anything and that we had to call the environmental agency of council for nuisance noise from neighbours instead.
We contacted the council and they told us that they don't deal with nuisance noise from neighbours and that we should have called the police instead (they were surpised by the fact that the police told us to call them) or to get in contact with either the managing agency or the landlord of the upstairs flat which we tried without success.
We don't know what to do, we are tired and powerless. Moving for us is complicated for personal reasons at the moment.
I'm writing this after another sleepless night, upstairs there was some kind of drug party. Music was luckily at low volume, but there was hubbub all night, smell of weed that you cannot imagine and their "guests" left this morning around 8am complitely wasted and high.
Why is there no justice and nobody is helping us? What can we do?
Tags for Forum Posts: Nuiscance, noise
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth on
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Poor you. That sounds horrendous.
I think the first thing to do would be to write a letter to Winkworth citing the law in question to ask them for the landlord's details. I am really shocked that Winkworth has behaved in this manner. We used them to buy our house, but will certainly not be using them in future if that is the way they treat good, respectable local tenants, and if anyone asks me for advice about a good estate agent, I will let them know what I think of Winkworth. Feel free to quote me in your letter!
With regards to the tenants themselves, sometimes, unfortunately, when all reasonable avenues have failed, you need to start being unreasonable. I used to have two housemates who liked to play House music at full volume at all hours, and did this despite the rest of us repeatedly and politely asking them to turn it down. So I started watching TV full volume when I knew they were asleep (modern TVs can be astonishingly loud- I had to wear earplugs and headphonese over them). I felt massively guilty, but I only had to do it once per housemate for them to get the message, and the other pro-social housemates were very grateful indeed!
Good luck whatever you decide to do!
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I would definitely contact a ward Councillor and the anti social behaviour team.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Lisa - local authorities DO deal with noise nuisance. They have a statutory duty to do so. As you have had the brush off I would suggest asking one of your ward councillors to raise the issue with them. The way things will probably start is by them asking you to keep a diary of the nuisance being caused to you. While this will not help in the short term it can be used as evidence in any action Haringey may take against the tenants.
Secondly, the landlord has a duty to ensure that their tenants do not cause a nuisance to others. As Winkworth are acting as their agent it falls to them to either take action on behalf of the landlord or for them to put you in contact to pursue the issue. This is a pain but every time they cause problems write a note with the details and deliver it to Winkworth - you may want them to sign a receipt when you do so..
Finally Elizabeth’s suggestion about naming and shaming Winkworth a good one. They hate bad publicity so let them know that you have raised the issue on local social media and that many of the users may have read it and have doubts about whether they would use Winkworth in the future. A good resolution by them will end up with a positive report here. Making money is what they care about after all.
It’s not right that you should have to go to these length but making a nuisance of yourself with Haringey and Winkworth may be the the only way to get the true nuisance sorted
Best of luck
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What you were told by the person you spoke to is completely untrue. See the link below to central government guidance on dealing with noisy neighbours
https://www.gov.uk/how-to-resolve-neighbour-disputes/complain-about...
If they fail to uphold their legal responsibilities firstly ask for them to confirm in writing that they refuse to take action. Then use the council’s internal complaints procedure. After that you have the option of complaining to the Local Government Ombudsman.
You have been treated abominably. Please let one of your councillors know.
https://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/mgFindMember.aspx?XXR=0&AC=...
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Permalink Reply by Lisa on
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Thanks for helping. I will call them again and point all this out. Maybe even recording the call
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If Winkworth refuse to help – which doesn't surprise me, we had a terrible experience with them – then definitely visit the owner to tell them what's been going on and to explain how the lettings agency they are paying is treating you. You need to show the landlord you're at the end of your tether, so turning up unannounced is the best way to do that. Definitely also contact Cllr Zena Brabazon, ward councillor for Harringay, to ask for her intervention regarding Environmental Health, because what you were told about them not investigating neighbour noise isn't true. It sounds like the music studio might constitute a business, which they'd need permission for. Cllr Brabazon has twice been a brilliant source of help for us when we had issues with a neighbouring Homes for Haringey property. Here are her details from the Haringey council website.
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Of course you should call the police if the neighbours are smoking marijuana. It's an illegal class B drug. They might not prioritise the response but if you're insistent, demand a crime reference number and call every time they do it the police are bound to take action especially if you start emailing borough commanders, and local councillors quoting the crime reference numbers and lack of response.
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Permalink Reply by Jim Walsh on
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I think you mean cannabis brian. 'marijuana' is a misnomer originating in the LGBT community of LA and Hollywood. marijuana = 'mary jane' which is slang for cross dresser. so next time you take a good long toke on that spliff brian cast your mind back to 1920s LA and all the fun had there.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Think you may have got hold of the wrong end of an urban myth there, James. Have a look at this.
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Permalink Reply by Rob B on
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https://www.lease-advice.org/template-document/request-disclosure-l...
a s1 notice template for you :)
good luck. Sounds like a horrible situation
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I cannot thank you all enough for your support. It's been overwhelming. Mentally and psychologically we are in a better position than we were just 2 days ago, we feel much better knowing that we are not totally powerless and that we have the support of the community.We have decided to try one really last time to solve the problem between us, the upstairs tenants and the agency/landlord before involving the Police or the Council.It's unbelievable we cannot reason with those tenants without the need of escalating the matter.I have written an email to the agency demanding the contact details of the Landlord once again letting them know I'm shaming the agency on social media. If they refuse again I will send a letter ( Rob B thank you for the template).We talked with the tenants upstairs again yesterday, and they feel that the noise they make is not enough to justify our complaints. I don't see a change of heart coming from them. It's true that they keep the volume to a much lower level now, but that's not enough yet due to the total absence of any kind of insulation between their music studio and our master bedroom.I have also received a promtp reply from Cllr Brabazon Zena the ward councillor who offered her help.Thank you so much to all of you again. Fingers crossed we will be peacefully able solve this problem.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Georgiou on
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Hi Lisa,
I am sorry to hear that you are not happy and that you are going through a stressful time at the moment.
We have a duty of care to all of our clients and can confirm that Winkworth does not tolerate any anti-social behaviour from any tenant or landlord. We are actively working to resolve your complaint.
Your landlord is fully aware of the situation. As previously advised, we need dates and times with video evidence of when the noise and nuisance took place. This is because supporting documentation and evidence is required to apply to court for discretionary grounds to evict. Applications for eviction without such evidence will not be processed by the courts and will be deemed an unlawful eviction.
I have seen the correspondence with yourself and our team and I can see that you have been correctly advised of the next steps and necessary procedures so that we can assist you further but you have not followed up on this.
I can confirm the tenants passed full references and were approved by the landlord. As previously instructed, if you would like the home address of your landlord, we simply require this request in writing and the information will be promptly supplied.
Please note we will not be responding further regarding this matter on this portal and trust that all parties involved are happy with the pending resolution.
Kind regards
Michael Georgiou
Associate Director
Winkworth Harringay
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