Haringey traffic boss starts Ladder traffic review following engagement by local group

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by PeterPiper on March 11, 2021 at 15:06

I think you've explained this very well Michael. The temporary closure of Wightman Road and a lack of mitigation for displaced traffic highlighted the traffic load that Wightman Road currently bears and in my view that was increased when closures were put in place on many of the roads east of Green Lanes back in the day, without any corresponding measures for mitigation being put in place on the western side of GL.

Be that as it was, we are now in a different space with the pressures of a climate change emergency and a twin public health deficit of polluted air that breaks EU guidelines, let alone WHO guidelines, and obesity, both of which place unnecessary strains on the NHS.

We cannot go backwards and hide our heads in the sand, lifestyle changes are necessary if our children & grandchildren are to have any chance of enjoying a fulsome life experience. It will not happen overnight and there will be initial frustrations for many people, but there is no choice and the time for prevaricating whilst continuing to be undermined by the fossil fuel industry is over.

We all need to accept that road-space needs to be reallocated and reprioritised away from the motor car, the use of which should be thought of as a last resort.

The irony in Harringay and much of the borough is that a majority of households do not have access to a car. 

The St. Ann's plans threaten to repeat this if nothing is done on the Ladder to mitigate the impact. At the same time, I support the St. Ann's plans in general because they are the future.

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Permalink Reply by JulieB on March 11, 2021 at 21:17

I asked the council at the time if they had thought about mitigating measures and they said they had put in place some, I can't remember what they all were but one was changing and closely monitoring traffic light sequences. But what little they did do obviously wasn't enough. I totally agree with you about Green Lanes car parking.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on March 12, 2021 at 3:22

Julie, they didn’t even get the signage right at the bottom of the the Ladder roads right.  It took a lot of emails and phone calls to get ones that told motorists that if they went up, they would go no where!

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 12, 2021 at 8:05

Anyone take photos of that problem? Or mapped it? Anybody got copies of emails sent and replies?  With outcomes?

In other words, on what were ongoing - in effect - unintended but potentially valuable experiments, how much was recorded, can be retrieved/dug out from the record; and learned from. Any indication of what was learned and by whom?

I'm sure that many people realised - maybe immediately, maybe slowly - that cheap, simple and easy digital photography, combined with cheap storage, was a huge and positive change. But only if embraced with enthusiasm.

Especially as audio and video was added to the mix. And with very large numbers of people going round with a tiny but powerful computer in their pocket which had all those functions.

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Permalink Reply by Dick Harris on March 12, 2021 at 9:38

I quite agree that the long closure of Wightman Road could be seen as a valuable experiment.  It was quite long enough for drivers to adjust their habits after the initial period of confusion (which was pretty dramatic).  The intensive and expensive collection of traffic data took place during two widely separated weeks, one before and one during the closure.  The second week was well after the initial period of confusion and I believe that much more could have been made of the data collected.  The leading professional consultant involved said that he had never seen such a comprehensive mass of data collected for a traffic study and, in my view, it was a pity that more comprehensive analysis of it was not made (perhaps it was but not published).  This could, of course, still be done and there are many possibilities. For example, it would be good to see an estimate of the volume of vehicle movements that arise exclusively from ladder residents themselves and deliveries to them.  Also, an estimate of how many vehicle movements on ladder rungs arise from people parking just of Green Lanes.   Perhaps the council could employ a postgrad to reanalyse the data as part of an MSc thesis.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 12, 2021 at 11:59

Dick, I'm not challenging your overview; nor your suggestion about the retained data and its possible reuses. As you say, the work and expense to collect the previous data should if possible be available for further study and any insights it offers.

However my point was from a different angle. Traffic Engineers, Planners, the Degeneration staff and others come and go. And so do many residents. But they are, in the Anarchist saying, the "wearers who know where the shoe pinches".

So cameras and smartphones are tools which for residents, can add useful evidence. And maybe help to tilt the power balance a little towards residents when faced with a 101 Council where local residents' views observations and opinions are often assumed to be wrong.

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Permalink Reply by JulieB on March 12, 2021 at 13:22

Yes I remember taking a picture of the 'advance warning sign' at the beginning of Warham Road. It was behind 2 other signs and a tree in full bloom, I had to really search for it and I knew what was going on!

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 12, 2021 at 15:56

Thanks, JulieB. That tends to support my point. The camera lens can often "see" from the viewpoint of a driver or a walker. Or in the example you give, record the obstructions and blooms that block their viewpoint.

I realise it can be a faff but I've found it worthwhile to make and email-in such photos.  It's possible that someone sensible might not only fix a signage problem but also learn from it.
I also confess to enjoy spotting signs with spelling mistaeks. Or which face the wrong way. Or give directions to buildings and services which no longer exist. One Haringey roadside sign was (still is?) so thickly layered by graffiti that its original purpose could serve only to puzzle a passing archaeologist.

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Permalink Reply by JulieB on March 12, 2021 at 18:13

At the time I think I posted it on HoL and I definitely sent it to someone at the Council.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 12, 2021 at 21:05

Thanks, I'll search on HoL
But maybe the important "moral" is what residents can do now and in the future?
Traffic engineers have their "toolbox" and measurements. Those generate useful basic information. But there must also be a place for what residents' see and hear and experience. Local "wisdom".

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