Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Freedom Pass under threat?
The government has suggested it may slash funding for the free travel scheme enjoyed by tens of thousands of elderly and disabled Londoners.
Minister for Transport Sadiq Khan said his department will review the £58million that was previously earmarked for London town halls to subsidise the pass in 2010/11.
London Councils, the umbrella body for local authorities in the capital, says each borough may lose up to £1m in funding, leaving councils with the unenviable choice of picking up the tab for the concessionary off-peak fare scheme, or making cuts.
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Minister for Transport Sadiq Khan said his department will review the £58million that was previously earmarked for London town halls to subsidise the pass in 2010/11.
London Councils, the umbrella body for local authorities in the capital, says each borough may lose up to £1m in funding, leaving councils with the unenviable choice of picking up the tab for the concessionary off-peak fare scheme, or making cuts.
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Tags for Forum Posts: buses, freedom pass, older people, public spending cuts, public transport
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Many, many older people will not submit to a means test. It is not because the don't need the money - its because they have some pride. They recently renamed council tax benefit a rebate to encourage older people to claim it. Many people have a horror of being labelled as on benefits which is not a surprise given the way people on benefits are portrayed in this country.
Have a look at this post about more constructive ways to get people out of the poverty trap without withdrawing their lifelines.
The future for public spending may lie in not cutting and spending but in this intiative called Total Place which adds up all the public money going to a place and looks at how it could be better spent. Thus, the well-heeled inlaws (although I'm inclined to agree with John on this, let 'em use the buses and keep them running) may find the money cut for their bus pass but spent on something they would prefer, whilst the folks of Haringey can still use their bus passes to get around.
Although if we're looking for tax savings, we might start with shaking up a few quangos and getting better value for money there.
Lastly, I repeat, the bus pass is a reward, a rebate for the Grey generation who built the NHS for us, set us up the welfare state, brought about the liberal consensus which meant rights for those from all races, sexualities and and both genders. They gave us the pill and, in some cases they gave us their fathers and mothers to fight fascism. They had a wobble in the eighties but on the whole, they did give us a better world...maybe when we start taking away their bus passes, they might wonder why they bothered.
Grey Panthers, I salute you and I will join you on the barricades!
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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Well that's two of us, John. And since Peter Sellers (briefly) attended my old school on Hornsey Lane, Pink it is.
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Malcom
Do you see the world ONLY from your own point of view ?
This is the time of year for magnanamity.
Don't be churlish.
Feel the love.
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No James, its not churlish or a question of being generous.
Malcolm has a point with regard to targetting the money better but I'm suggesting that rather than look at things like bus passes, we would be better cutting at the top and looking at where money is being spent on say Quangos and deciding whether they are actually giving us value for money for the amount they receive and the amount they control. Have a look at the links.
It always seems to be the case that in times when the country is hard up, we look to cutting small beer like the Freedom Pass instead of having the vision to restructure how we spend from the very top.
See what you think of the Total Place idea. -
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Permalink Reply by Malcolm on
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Liz, I fear we're talking past each other and may have to agree to disagree on this one.
If I understand you, you're opposed to changes to the Freedom pass that (might) be coming as central government cuts spending. You also oppose means testing as older people have pride so won't claim. Finally I hear you saying that the Freedom pass is a reward for the generation that built the NHS etc.
Starting with the last - you would presumably therefore support abolishing the Freedom pass in about 2045 when only the uncaring children of Thatcher will be claiming it? If you want to thank older people for their contribution to society (which I would totally support) then is a bus pass the best way to achieve that end? If you're spending £58 million to say thanks wouldn't it be nice to know that the recipients actually got £58 million's worth of pleasure from it?
I think we're actually agreeing on whether bus passes should be universal benefits for OAPs - your comment on Total Place would seem to accept that some groups might decide that they want the pot spent on them in different ways and that might involve giving up the bus pass. I'm approaching it from the opposite angle but I believe we end up at the same place - it makes more sense to find out what people actually want and then spend the available resources to achieve those ends, rather than universally deciding that everyone should have a bus pass.
On the "plucky pensioner's pride preventing benefit claims" claim - yes there is estimated to be a large number of pensioners not claiming. However according to this study http://www.le.ac.uk/economics/sep2/multitakeup.pdf only 16% are failing to claim more than 10% of their income. In other words the people not claiming are the ones for whom it wouldn't make much difference - so they're not prevented by pride but by completely rational economic behaviour. The major exception is households headed by women over 80 - so either old women are prouder than old men and/or younger pensioners, or something other than pride is at work.
Anyway enough on the bus pass - I shall leave you to the barricades (so long as they're not making the Arena traffic worse!)
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Indeed, we may have to disagree. I for one will support the concept of free travel for pensioners. This is one thing that seems to unite them. My mother on the winter fuel allowance is quite amusing as she is pretty convinced that most of her pals on the estate spend it on Christmas presents and holidays - she is a pensioner but she believes this is not a useful way to deal with fuel poverty. Just try and take her bus pass though...although she is not in a postion to use the transferable option that your in laws use because of health reasons.
I'm not sure that Age Concern and the British Legion would agree with you on matters of pride and claiming money but I cannot lay hands on the links right now. If I come across them, I will certainly post them but maybe in a separate post as this one I think is nearing exhaustion.
By the way, I think we should be clear that free travel for pensioners is not the case in every part of the country as it stands.
Where my parents live, it is subsidised but not free and I believe that in areas where bus services actually still run, even if we were to switch to a Total Place system, some sort of subsidised/free travel will be part of the deal for older folks. Many have to give up cars for economic or health reasons, if they ever had them in the first place and the bus pass helps many of them get to the places they need to go.
As to the generation of 2045, well, they may yet deliver on Climate Change or any number of other issues so I may not yet judge if they deserve it based on their collective achievements, but in the meantime, they will be paying their taxes and subsidising the generation coming up. So I reckon, they will still be entitled to it (unless a bus pass becomes as old fashioned a notion as ostrich feathers in hats) and as far as I can see, based, I acknowledge purely on anecdotal evidence i.e. all the oldies around me, the bus pass is definitely something that they all appreciate, so yep I reckon we keep it until such time as the Grey Panthers decide they want something else instead. -
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Permalink Reply by rahman on
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Pensioners in this country get such a raw deal. Im not even thirty yet, but would like to join the Grey Panthers Brigade once it is set up! :)
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(james standing to attention on parade ground)
Have i been 'dismissed' yet ?
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"stand at ease"
(just in case a head pops back over the barricade)
Grey and Pink Panthers of all Ages -Follicaly Challenged or Not -(in Pink Panther Mobiles) of the World Unite!......
(Harringay Chapter)
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