Five-a-side plans for Finsbury Park

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on January 15, 2010 at 12:51

Thanks for clarification, I think we're pretty much agreed on what is and isn't acceptable in terms of development.

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on January 15, 2010 at 13:29

Can I mention again Anna Minton's excellent book Ground Control. She raises fascinating questions about privatisation of public spaces. Also how local government - representing the whole community - is losing control of vast areas of land to private interests. She links this to ideas borrowed from the U.S. And to Margaret Thatcher's approach to the development of Docklands - with its private roads and private security firms in Canary Wharf.

These are some of the wider issues raised directly or indirectly in this thread. With the underlying question: 'What kind of cities and towns do most people want to live and work in?"

Curiously, most political parties and politicians seem unaware of the implications of this growing trend - perhaps because in the short-term it's attractive to accept what look like money-saving schemes from so-called "private partners".

Here's a link to a video talk by Anna Minton.
You can get Ground Control at the Big Green community bookshop in Wood Green. They'd sold out of copies today but will have more in tomorrow - or they can order you a copy within a day. When you order the book mention Harringay Online. You may be nicely surprised.

Permalink Reply by Liz on January 15, 2010 at 16:01

Old Age Emporium eloquently puts the case for Finsbury Park Community allotments

Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on January 15, 2010 at 18:33

Are they called Recreation Services because they keep us on our toes while giving us the runaround?

Permalink Reply by Hugh Hayes on January 15, 2010 at 19:04

Just wanted to add a few points to the ones I made earlier and responses to some of the comments.
Parks do not have statutory funding like education and the police so they are always an area where cuts can be made, however the Heritage Lottery Fund put in £3.4 million to repair Finsbury Park and they have exacted a ten year maintenance promise of £300,000 a year from Haringey Council. This may seem a lot of money but when you know that the GLC in 1985-6 spent £600,000 on Finsbury Park and had 20 staff, it puts it into perspective. So Haringey Council have to find that money from somewhere, they can't skimp on the maintenance in tough times as they used to.
The only way to get financial and other information about Finsbury Park from Haringey Council is by the Freedom of Information Act - that is how I got my figures. Even then there were some figures that they would only give if I paid £757.08 (for officer time). As Chair of the FoFP I was promised but never given any actual costs.
There is money available even for Councils to get to help towards revitalising sports areas from funding bodies like the London Marathon Trust, so the cost of upgrading the "sticky Tarmac area " needn't cost Haringey Council, but this doesn't make them money like a lease does. The concrete floor of this area is in a bad way, almost certainly worse after this winter weather. During the HLF consultation we wanted the tennis courts to be placed there so as to be nearer the changing rooms but they said the cost would be prohibitive. Then they found the drainage on the area where the courts are now was appalling and they had to spend much more than anticipated on that. I am not sure how the commercial company would make the concrete area level enough, but they would presumably have ways of doing this.
Finsbury Park was full of allotments during the war (dig for victory) but eventually they were taken back because it was thought more important to use the park in other ways. If there were to be allotments in the park i would suggest there should be a limited number of communal ones for groups in the community, as there isn't room to fullfill the present demand from Hackney, Islington and Haringey residents and it is a wonderfully designed classic Victorian park whose aspect would be ruined by too many allotments.
As for football, because the park is on a hill and the way it is laid out, there is little room for full pitches - the GLC spent a load of money making a level pitch by Seven Sisters Road, but it is still slim for a football pitch. No-one could object to Haringey Council creating some five a side pitches on the tarmac area, as long as room was left for other activities like volley ball and basketball and they could even charge for them like they do with the tennis courts, but not more buildings, and not a separate privatised area in a public park.
The real tragedy for Finsbury Park is that it was set up and run by the Metropolitan Boards of Works which became the LCC which became the GLC - all London wide organisations. Now it is run by Haringey who can't afford it. Everyone agrees that it should be made into a charitable trust that the three boroughs surrounding it - Hackney, Islington and Haringey - part fund. Then it could raise further funding for environmental, sport, health and arts projects that would make it a successful and cost effective environmental hub for the three boroughs. Everyone also agrees that this appears impossible to arrange.

Permalink Reply by PeterPiper on January 15, 2010 at 19:29

Open space is important, it's all very well having pitches and courts etc, but for some the lack of markings and enclosures allows free improvisation. The benefit of this "tacky" piece of tarmac is that at present it can be all things to all people. Hugh H. has stated elsewhere that FP is mainly on a slope, but this is a flat, low maintenance piece of all-weather land available for all ages & groups to use more or less as they please.

This is a generalisation, but many young people resent their activities always being 'organised' when they just want to get together with their friends and muck about with their balls, bikes & skates etc.

LBH has a track record of incompetence with their parks, look at what's been going on at the Ally Pally since they took responsibility for it.

Yes, the surface might need some maintenance, and the fencing is in need of repair, but that's all. Leave it alone LBH, it ain't broke, so don't try to fix it.

Permalink Reply by Liz on January 16, 2010 at 16:33

Would this proposal be breaking the 1866 Metropolitan Commons Act by seeking to fence off public land ?

See this BBC story about Greenwich Park and attempts to stop a temporary enclosure.

Any lawyers know whether this applies in the case of Finsbury Park?

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on January 17, 2010 at 21:23

Don't be too complacent, this borough managed to lease Alexandra Palace to a dodgy landlord. Will this also end up in the High Court?

Permalink Reply by pamish on January 16, 2010 at 18:53

@ HUgh Hayes 12.59pm 14th Jan re LBH Labour lot

"They never listen to the local community as they do in Tottenham."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Permalink Reply by Alison P on January 17, 2010 at 20:44

I went past this site today. I've read the posts here and haven't responded because I wasn't really sure what I thought. Having had another look, I must admit I'm not that keen.

My main problem is the private company angle, and the fact that - as many others have pointed out - the space is currently available for all sorts of different users. Today for example it was being used by a family teaching their children to ride a bike and some guys playing basketball - and later on to park cars for a film crew (wonder how much money Haringey make from them?!). We've debated the pros and cons of the softball area on this site elsewhere but it does still rankle me that we've this huge area of land that is more often than not completely empty. I know the meteors have improved it and generally done great things - but it just seems such a shame that such a huge expanse of space isn't available to anyone else. So I'm not very keen to lose another bit in the same way.

I'm also not at all sure about the ambitions they have for the space. I don't see how on earth you could fit 10 5 a side spaces in there, plus changing areas, new car parking etc etc. I'd like to see plans as to how you could do that - my suspicion is that some other land would be encroached on to do this. I presume any private company would want a certain number of pitches to make it worth their while - which is where I guess the number ten has come from.

Finally, the car parking bothers me too. Personally I don't want to see any more cars in Finsbury Park. It's a park, not a car park.

Permalink Reply by Stuart on January 17, 2010 at 22:06

On the car-parking subject, it's worth thinking about the numbers. 10 5-a-side pitches means, at peak times, up to 100 people using the site. And playing probably for an hour, maximum two. So just think about the number of cars involved with a changeover in usage at, eg. weekends, of 100 people every hour! That would be a massive in-flow of regular traffic in and out of the park.

Permalink Reply by Stuart on January 18, 2010 at 17:30

I have just received the following email from the council. I have followed up to ask them to clarify whether they are saying that (1) there are plans/designs but they're just not sharing them at this stage (if not, why not?) OR (2) there are no plans/designs at all (in which case where do they get their 10 pitches/80 cars figures from?). From the careful wording, I suspect it's (1). I'll let you know if I receive a reply.

Dear [ ],

Thank you for your email regarding the planned consultation on at Finsbury Park.



We are currently informing the public about the upcoming consultation therefore at present we do not have any site plans or designs to share.



Once further details are available we will be sharing these with everyone, at this stage we wanted to give notice of the planned consultation.



We appreciate your interest in this matter and look forward to hearing your views when the formal consultation beings, however if you would like anymore information you can contact me personally on the details below.



Regards,



Erica Owusu-Boateng

Sports Hub Officer



Recreation Services

40 Cumberland Road, Wood Green N22 7SG

Tel: 020 8489 4629

Mob: 07854 058 317

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