Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

So I can hear many people being pleased about this, but I can promise you fining people for jumping red lights doesnt work

its the 2nd time I have been fined and this time it cost me £50 on a very rainy monday by a very grumpy young PC- not happy- all cars staitonary- and no pedestrians

But will it stop me ( or other serial red light jumpers like me)- well its a BIG FAT NO-

Its just now I will have to make sure there are no police cars in the vicinity- So infact instead of making the roads safer, instead of me previously doing a thorough check of the road of any cars, pedestrians, other cyclists., I now have to check for police which means Im possibly less than 100% focused on everything else

So to put this in context

I am a middle age woman who has been cycling  in london on a daily basis for the last 30years. I have been knocked off quite a few times( absolutely none of them my fault)

 2 of my accidents in my early years of cycling where  when i was leaving traffic lights- so I learnt like many other cyclists, traffic lights are dangerous places to stop- So provided its totally clear, get on your way. The more cyclists on the road, the worst junctions seem with the cluster of cyclists trying to find room with cars behind getting impatient and trying to squeeze through dangerously narrow gaps

So you are never going to convince me or many other cyclists its safer to stop at red lights- although i might be a bit richer

So any PC PlODS out there dont waste your time especially on a rainy day - go and catch real crims

So i know many wont agree wth this, but unfortunately a few cyclists give us all a bad name- such as cyclists

who jump lights in a dangerous way( when there are cars around

cyclists who go on pavments and weave around pedestians- scarring them

cyclists who dont stop at pedestrian crossings when people are crossing-terrible!!!!!!!!!!

But something needs to be done with all these recent deaths, and I would be really interested in what the circumstances were- i would guarantee it wasnt due to jumping a light-unless of course the person had been drinking etc

Most bad accidents/fatalities happen by people obeying the law- so the law needs to be changed

And when are pedestrians going to be fined for jay walking across roads and knocking cyclists off

I got sent flying only 2 months ago by a pedestrian running out in front of me on green lanes, close to the ale emporium- the 3rd time a  pedestrian has knocked me off over the years

Right Rant finished

And anyone/cyclist wants to make our roads safer, see the petition below

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-cyclists

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Gosh look at all the funny posts on this thread! I think LSquared nailed it with:

"Jumping red lights may rarely be dangerous in itself, but it creates bad feeling towards cyclists"

Thats mostly what this is about, car drivers get sad when they see cyclists moving on while their car is stuck in traffic. And the main reason why the laws are as they are is because car driving is so dominant in this country and most of the people in power are drivers not cyclists.

In some other more cycle friendly countries its legal for cyclists to go through red lights. Even in this country lots of people who've thought about it agree cyclists should have free left turn at lights.

Obviously none of that means its ok for a cyclist to plow along at speed expecting everyone else to just get the hell out of their way, but come on everyone have a bit of perspective.

Flame on...

Exactly the law is an ass, expecting a cyclist to have to wait at an arbitrary red light with not even an invisible man around and let traffic pile up behind and around them is just dangerous in some circumstances.

The reason why many cyclist jump the light is because not doing so would result in more accidents.

There are two types of red light jumpers, the first group are the idiots that do it every time and they should be beaten with a stick along with car drivers who text and drive but the other group that sometimes do so when not doing so would be dangerous are just very wise and simply surviving a system that frankly is awfully poorly designed, if the rule of law were always to be followed.

Some perspective on this needs to be given.

FPR, curious to know  your opinion re motorists having to wait at an arbitrary red light. eg Would it be ok in your view to ignore it if one deemed that there was little risk to safety?

@ Lsquared: "The best way to be safe at traffic lights is to wait in line with the cars. Then the people behind you know exactly where you are."

This is the problem - on many junctions this is just not true. On busy junctions it is really dangerous  for cyclists to go with the traffic when it turns green - drivers are looking to get across/through the junction quickly,  . . . lorry and coach drivers cannot see cyclists. 

There have been some very interesting debates for some years now about why women cyclists seem to be over represented in injury/fatality cycling statistics; eg -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8296971.stm

"In 2007, an internal report for Transport for London concluded women cyclists are far more likely to be killed by lorries because, unlike men, they tend to obey red lights and wait at junctions in the driver's blind spot."

Positioning yourself with the traffic isn't dangerous, being on the left hand side of it is. Unfortunately that's exactly where cycle lanes encourage people to be. Justifying jumping the light for reasons of safety just ignores the fact that it's only because you've otherwise stopped in an unnecessarily dangerous position.

I'll happily stick myself in a gap one or two cars back, it takes the pressure off me when the lights change because I'm not seen as holding up the first car away from the lights.

Unfortunately more often than not it's a completely futile gesture because every other cyclist filters past to the supposed sanctuary of the green box, and then has to deal with traffic wanting to overtake immediately when the lights change.

I agree with Lsquared, "wait in line with the cars". The crucial advise is to wait in the lane (midway between the rear wheels of the vehicle in front), not the furthermost left (dangerous).

Please see this facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/110063435707957/

My statement was unclear. I mean sit in the lane, in the queue of cars. Not to the side of the cars where drivers aren't looking, not squeezed to the front between cars, but right there in the lane, behind the car that got there before you and in front of the car that got there after, queuing with the cars and taking up a car-sized space.

This might be Ok if you have only cars in in front, behind or to the side.  If there are lorries or coaches you should get out of that situation. 

If a lorry or coach is the vehicle in front that is fine.

If they are behind, I will watch them pull up. I look for a reaction to make sure they have seen me. I will continue to make eye contact as we pull away.

If they are beside me, by definition I must be on a two lane road. If they were there first and are indicating I do not pull up side them but wait behind. If they pull up beside me that is risky for me - I will wave and if I don't get a reaction I will let them pull away so I am well behind before I start off.

I cycle round Old Street roundabout and over the three lane junction at Stamford Hill with busses and lorries almost every day.

"On busy junctions it is really dangerous  for cyclists to go with the traffic when it turns green - drivers are looking to get across/through the junction quickly,  . . . lorry and coach drivers cannot see cyclists".

The cyclist is in the lane (& visible to the vehicle behind) before s/he stops behind other traffic at the red light. As the vehicle behind pulls to a stop, behind the cyclist, the driver is aware that there is a cyclist in front. This is the safest strategy in my experience.

We don't live in some countries we live in London, UK.

I don't argue that maybe the law should be changed but at this point it is the law and if you somehow think you are above that then that's an ignorant attitude. It is the law in many countries for all vehicles to turn left on red, it is not applicable here, deal with it.

Did this a few years ago, just to make the bourgeois anarchists foam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Musal9PDsSc

Does anyone have any figures re drivers fined for obstructing the Advance Stop Lines?  If those were used properly it must cut the risk to cyclists, but I often see them being blocked. As it's an offence, does it get pursued? The CCTV cameras like the one that did me for getting stuck on a box junction (while doing a charity delivery, pah) could be used, driver awareness depends on the word getting out that they will be busted. Remember when nipping through the bus lane was a normal tactic? Now everyone has been fined once, no-one does it (except the ODonovan skip lorries, but they have special exemption from all traffic laws). Are ASLs as helpful as they re meant to be?  They must have been set up to reduce red-light-jumping.

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